HC Deb 15 May 1884 vol 288 cc430-2
SIR HERVEY BRUCE

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether Mr. William Gray, who is one of the Sub-Commissioners for fixing rent in Ireland, is the same Mr. William Gray who is reported to have been in the habit of attending, and occasionally presiding, at political meetings where cheers for the suspects and the Land League, and cries of "no rent," and denunciations of landlordism were common topics, and who, in one speech, said— If Griffith's valuation of a farm be twenty shillings per acre, and the taxes, say, three shillings, then eight shillings and sixpence would be a fair rent. But I am not certain that, when the forces represented by steam, and the contemplated arrangements in America are fully carried out and developed, even this will not be an exorbitant rent; in a speech on another occasion, is reported to have said— The farmers did not get, as they should get, the benefit of the Healy Claus.… … They would not, however, give up agitation; and, before 1891, they would have another Act, which would be a greater improvement on the Act of 1881 than the Act of 1881 was on that of 1870. …. Lord Monck was a landlord, Judge O'Hagan, who betrayed the early traditions of his youth, Litton, who by false promises was elected for Tyrone, and who now betrayed the farmers, and Vernon, were all landlords; and, if, on inquiry, he finds that Mr. William Gray, who is reported to have made these observations, be a Sub-Commissioner, he is prepared to consider whether he possesses the qualifications which would comply with the rules laid down by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland as guiding him in making such appointments, as expressed in a Letter to a reverend gentleman, dated 11th January 1883?

MR. TREVELYAN

Mr. Gray made the platform speeches alluded to before he was appointed as a Sub-Commissioner, and the words he used were not known to the Lord Lieutenant when he appointed him. His Excellency selected Mr. Gray, feeling confidence in the recommendations of men like Lord Yarmouth, Sir Richard Wallace, and Mr. Stannus. Having regard to these circumstances and to the fact that the Land Commissioners have good reports of the way in which he does his work, Lord Spencer does not intend to take any action. It is only fair to Mr. Gray to say that he explained that he used the illustration of Griffith's valuation merely to repudiate any valuation as a standard of rent, and also that the political cries alluded to as having been made use of at meetings which he attended were used in opposition to him.

SIR HERVEY BRUCE

Upon what authority does the right hon. Gentleman suppose Mr. Gray was recommended by Lord Yarmouth and Sir Richard Wallace?

MR. TREVELYAN

On the authority of Lord Spencer, and I have had in my hands letters from Lord Yarmouth and Sir Richard Wallace which, so far as my recollection serves me, bear out my statement.

MR. GIBSON

Has the right hon. Gentleman obtained any explanation from this gentleman of the following words— If Griffith's valuation of a farm be twenty shillings per acre and the taxes, say, three shillings, then eight and sixpence would be a fair rent? Does the right hon. Gentleman think he can expect the landlords of Ireland to acquiesce in this decision?

MR. TREVELYAN

I gave the explanation supplied to me by Mr. Gray as to its being an illustration of the doctrine that no valuation rent was possible.

MR. GIBSON

I shall put a further Question on Monday.