HC Deb 07 February 1884 vol 284 cc184-6
MR. A. M'ARTHUR

asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether Lord Derby requested President Kruger to delay the execution of the Chief, Mampoer, until he had conferred with the President on the subject; whether the Acting High Commissioner at the Cape had reason to believe that the request would be complied with; and, whether it is a fact that the Transvaal Authorities executed Mampoer without waiting for any expression of Lord Derby's views on the case?

MR. EVELYN ASHLEY

Sir, Papers laid on the Table of the House to-day will give in full the several communications which have passed on this subject; but I think I ought to state briefly an answer as to the immediate point at issue in my hon. Friend's Question. On the 1st of October the Acting High Commissioner wrote from Cape Town that he had had an interview with President Kruger, who said that in view of Lord Derby's request— He would telegraph to Vice President Joubert desiring him to delay any execution until after the arrival of the deputation in England, so as to enable them to learn your Lordship's views in the matter. Two days later President Kruger communicated to General Smyth the text of his telegram to the State Secretary at Pretoria, which was as follows:— Tell Vice President, trust he received telegram of Lord Derby respecting death sentence of Mampoer and Niabel. I abide by opinion then communicated to him. Niabel and other rebel chieftains may receive exemption from death sentence, but not so the murderer Mampoer. However, I earnestly hope sentence of death will not be carried out until I have seen Lord Derby himself according to wish. President Kruger and the Delegates then arrived in England, and on the 21st of November the Secretary of State, seeing a report that Mampoer was to he executed on that day, wrote to them reminding them of Mr. Kruger's action at Cape Town. The reply was that the latest information in possession of the deputation was contained in a letter to President Kruger from the State Secretary at Pretoria, dated the 9th of October, 1883, of which the following was a translated extract:— I have received your telegram from Cape Town. The Executive Council will not now take any steps with regard to the sentences of death passed upon Mampoer and Niabel before your Honour has had an interview with Lord Derby on the subject, when we shall hear again from you. On the 30th of November Lord Derby again wrote to the Delegates, the certain news of Mampoer's death having arrived, and said he learnt with surprise and regret that the Executive Council of the Transvaal had acted in violation of the undertaking given by President Kruger and General Smyth, which had been fully relied on by Her Majesty's Government, In answer to this, the Transvaal deputation, on the 1st of December, said they had communicated with the Government at Pretoria, and that as soon as they received any information they would at once communicate it to the Colonial Office. We have not yet received any further communication in the matter.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

What was the date on which the Delegates arrived in England?

MR. EVELYN ASHLEY

I cannot recall the exact date. I think about the first week in November.

MR. R. N. FOWLER (LORD MAYOR)

I have understood that the date was the 1st of December

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

I wish to ask whether the Papers that will be laid on the Table with reference to the Transvaal Delegates will show that Lord Derby had satisfied himself that the Government of the Transvaal would be able to carry out any arrangements that they may make here in some definite shape, and more completely than they were able to carry out their own instructions.

MR. EVELYN ASHLEY

The Papers will speak for themselves.

MR. W. E. FORSTER

I wish to ask whether, if the last telegram was received on the 1st December, the Government have, by telegraph to the officers at the Cape, or by further communication with the Transvaal Delegates, expressed surprise at not receiving any answer?

MR. EVELYN ASHLEY

No, Sir. I would point out to my right hon. Friend that the telegram which was submitted to the Chief Commissioner by President Kruger is not a pledge, and you cannot twist it into a pledge; and we had no legal right of interference, but only of remonstrance.