§ MR. W. E. FORSTERasked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether any, and, if so, what, answer has been received to the inquiry which he stated, on the 2nd of this month, had been sent to the British Resident in the Transvaal, with regard to the statement, since confirmed, that Mapoch's and Mampori's Tribes have been broken up, and their people indentured to the Boer farmers; and, whether he can inform the House whether any, and, if so, what action the Government has taken in the matter?
§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEYSir, I stated in the debate on the Transvaal Vote the telegraphic answer we had received as to this; but I will repeat it 1745 in more detail. The British Resident said—
The following seems to be the outline of the action contemplated by the Transvaal Government:—(1) The general principle is dispersal of the tribe; (2) indentures are to be for three years.I may here interpolate that a later telegram says that they are to be for five years—Families are not to be separated. The general conditions of the indentures are to be similar to those under which the tribe of Masseleroon were distributed by the Transvaal Provincial Government during the English occupancy; (3) at the termination of the indentures those who have conducted themselves well, and may wish it, will be located at such place, or places, as may be decided on by the Government at the time being. With these exceptions, the prisoners of war will now be dealt with generally in accordance with the principles of the legislation for Natives during the time of English occupancy, and the Volksraad is now considering the general subject. Mapoch and Mampori have arrived here at Pretoria, and are in prison. They will be tried by the High Court.We immediately sent a telegram expressing our views; but as they are embodied in the despatch dated the 18th of August, which followed, I will only give the substance of the despatch. After expressing satisfaction at learning that the Chiefs are to be tried by the High Court, and not by the Kriegsraad, the despatch proceeds to protest against the long indentures of five years, and urges that they should only be made for one year in the first instance. It refers to the despatches of Sir Michael Hicks-Beach in 1879, with reference to the case of the indenturing at Cape Town of Natives taken in the Frontier wars as embodying equally the views of Her Majesty's present Government. It then proceeds to notice the justification put forward by the Transvaal Government that their course is only based on Sir Theophilus Shepstone's action in the case of the Masseleroon Tribe. It points out that if that action had been reported home at the time it certainly would have been disavowed by the Home Government. It then proceeds to quote the words of the Volksraad condemning the British action in this Masseleroon case as equally and even more condemnatory of their own proposed action. This despatch is to be communicated to the Transvaal Government.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTasked, whether the Boers would be able, at 1746 their will, to flog those indentured Natives as they had been in the habit of flogging all the Natives within their Borders?
§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEYNo, Sir. As I understand they will be ostensibly under indenture; and so long as the tribes are dispersed no particular locality is selected.
§ MR. W. E. FORSTERasked, whether it was from any terms in the despatch or any information that the hon. Gentleman used the word "voluntary." Were they to understand that these Natives, who were indentured, were to choose the persons to whom they would be indentured?
§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEYYes, Sir; because the justification is that the Transvaal base their action upon our action in the Masseleroon case, in which event the Natives were allowed to choose their own employers.
§ MR. W. E. FORSTERWill the hon. Gentleman take steps to ascertain, as quickly as possible, whether the indenturing is voluntary or not?
§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEYYes, Sir I will.