HC Deb 03 March 1882 vol 267 cc159-62

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

MR. CHAMBERLAIN moved the insertion of the following Clause:—

(As to coats and expenses of inquiry.)

"7. The Court may make such order as they think fit respecting the costs and expenses of the inquiry, and such order shall, on the application of any party entitled to the benefit of the same, he enforced by any Court of Summary Jurisdiction as if such costs and expenses were a penalty imposed by such Court.

"The Board of Trade may, if they think fit, pay to the members of the Court of Inquiry, including any assessors, such remuneration as they may, with the consent of the Treasury, appoint.

"Any costs and expenses ordered by the Court to he paid by the Board of Trade, and any remuneration paid under this section no otherwise provided for, shall be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament."

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause be now read a second time."


begged to move that the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again. A great many of his hon. Friends, who were interested in this Bill, had waited until a late hour, and had now gone away, under the impression that the Bill would not be brought on. At such a late hour (3.20) he did not think it was necessary that he should enter into any reasons for moving to report Progress.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Captain Aylmer.)


said, he had moved the clause in order to redeem the undertaking he had made on the second reading of the Bill. He might remind hon. Members that the Bill was strongly supported on both sides of the House, and no difference of opinion prevailed in regard to the clause he proposed to introduce. If any objection were raised it might be allowed to stand over until the Report. The clause itself had been on the Paper for some time, and no objection had been taken to it. The principle which it involved was agreed to on both sides of the House on the second reading of the Bill. What he was doing now was a mere formal matter, and would be for the convenience of the House, by securing the insertion of the clause in the Bill. They might then be allowed to get out of Committee, and they would be able to consider any further matter on the Report.


joined in the protest made by his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Maidstone (Captain Aylmer) against proceeding further with the Bill after a quarter past 3 in the morning.


expressed a hope that the hon. and gallant Member for Maidstone (Captain Aylmer) would not press his objection. Many hon. Members had been staying there for six or seven hours in order to bring this Bill on and advance it another stage. The Bill itself had been received as a useful and proper measure in all quarters; and he could assure the hon. and learned Member for Sheffield (Mr. Stuart-Wortley), and the hon. and gallant Member for Maidstone (Captain Aylmer), that they would consult the convenience of hon. Members on both sides of the House if they would withdraw the Motion for reporting Progress, and allow the measure to go forward.


said, the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade had called attention to the fact that no Amendments had been placed on the Paper to the clause which the Government proposed to insert in the Bill. That was quite true; but he had only been able to see the clause of the right hon. Gentleman yesterday, and to-morrow there would be five or six Amendments to it on the Paper. He did not think he ought to be required to move them at that hour of the morning.


said, he thought that it was most unreasonable for the Government to ask the Committee to go on with the Bill at that hour of the morning. He had supported the Government in their effort to get money. [Mr. CHAMBERLAIN dissented.] The right hon. Gentleman shook his head; but he (Mr. Fowler) thought he was quite justified in saying that he and his Friends had supported the Government, and they had a right to object now, under the circumstances, to go on with the present Bill.


said, that if he was in Order, upon a Motion of this nature, he should like to point out from the Bill itself a reason why they ought to postpone any further proceeding with it at the present moment. They were now discussing a new clause; but on referring to the Schedule of the Bill he thought he could point out a reason why the right hon. Gentleman in charge of it should give a little further time for the consideration of the measure.


remarked, that he was not in charge of the Bill. It was in the charge of the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Hugh Mason).


begged the right hon. Gentleman's pardon. He (Mr. Warton) had naturally thought that the right hon. Gentleman was in charge of the Bill. He wished, however, to point out that there was an extraordinary difference between the Schedule at the end of the Bill and the previous section. He could not understand why the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Hugh Mason) had not made the Schedule agree with the previous section; and there were one or two additions and one or two omissions that it would be necessary to make when they came to the Schedule to which he proposed to call attention. It would be absolutely necessary to make a number of small alterations in order to bring the Schedule into harmony with the rest of the Bill. The Amendments moved by the right hon. Gentleman who was not in charge of the Bill would introduce considerable alterations and practically determine the shape of the Bill.


said, he thought hon. Members opposite were under a misapprehension, inasmuch as they appeared to suppose that this was a Government measure. The Bill was brought in by his hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Hugh Mason). He rose only to express the opinion that little good would be done by proceeding farther with the clause before the Committee, in view of the strong feeling which had been evinced by hon. Members on that side of the House. Had the Bill been supported as on a former occasion, he had no doubt that another stage would have been reached.


said, he regretted that they could not proceed, inasmuch as the Bill had been received previously with almost absolute unanimity on both sides of the House, and five minutes' more discussion would have forwarded it to another stage.

Question put, and agreed to.

Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Monday next.