MR. JOSEPH COWENasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, If the Government have received information of the formation of a new Egyptian Ministry; and, if they have recognised it; and, if the Government can state how many British subjects have left Egypt since the riot in Alexandria?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir, Her Majesty's Government have not recognized the new Egyptian Ministry, but have instructed Sir Edward Malet, while carefully abstaining from any engagement or any expression which could be understood to constitute one, to limit his communications to questions affecting public safety. The French Consul General will act in the same way. I am not able to state the number of British subjects who have left Egypt.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEThe majority appear to have gone to Malta. I have not received figures on the subject.
§ SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTEI should wish to ask the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether anything has occurred to induce Her Majesty's Government to alter their view as to the number of persons who were murdered in the disturbance at Alexandria? It was originally stated that the number was 50.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEsaid, he had sent for further information on the subject, but had not yet received a reply. He understood, however, that, in addition to the six British subjects stated to have been killed in that disturbance, there were two others.
§ MR. O'KELLYasked whether the hon. Gentleman would have any objection to state the exact number and the religion and nationality of the persons killed during the disturbance?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKENo, Sir; I am afraid it would be almost hopeless to do so. For instance, there are in Alexandria a great number of Greeks, who are Greeks by race and Christians by religion, and that wear either European or Greek dress, and who are Turk- 37 ish subjects, and who could not be included in any return of foreigners, although very likely they would take the foreign side in any riot.
§ MR. CHAPLINasked whether the hon. Baronet was able to state that the information published in the newspapers to the effect that several hundreds of persons were killed during the disturbance was incorrect?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEsaid, he had already stated that he had received no precise information on the point, but that he had reason to believe that the number of Europeans killed did not exceed 50.
§ BARON HENRY DE WORMSasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, What is the text of the Protocole de Désintéressement which is to be signed by the Powers taking part in the Conference; and, whether Her Majesty's Government, by signing that document, would not jeopardise the preponderance which, having in view the fact that English interests in Egypt are far greater than those of any other nation, England should possess in that Country?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir, the draft of the proposed Protocol is in the same sense, though not in precisely the same words, as the Protocol signed at Constantinople on the 21st of September, 1880, and presented to Parliament in Papers—"Turkey No. 3, 1881." With regard to the concerted action of the Powers for the execution of the Treaty of Berlin, Her Majesty's Government do not consider that it would in any degree weaken the position that this country is entitled to in Egypt. A similar Protocol was signed in 1840 by Lord Palmerston, as Plenipotentiary of Great Britain, and by the Plenipotentiaries of Austria, Prussia, and Russia, at the time of the pacification of the Levant and the settlement of the future condition of Egypt.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether his attention has been called to the following statements, viz.:—From the Correspondent of the "Times" in Constantinople:—
In the course of conversation with each of the Ambassadors, Said Pasha gave an unequivocal, categorical refusal to the Conference proposal, on the grounds that such an assembly is unnecessary, inopportune, and inconsistent with the interests of Turkey. The Egyptian Question, he added, might he considered as settled by the compromise which had been accepted by the 38 Khedive and Arabi Pasha, and approved by Dervish Pasha;whether the compromise referred to was made under the pressure of the Consuls General of Austria and Germany; from the Correspondent of the "Daily Telegraph" describing an interview with Said Pasha, the Turkish Foreign Minister, in which the latter said:If not interfered with we can yet settle everything quietly and easily. Why should we accept a Conference, having seen so many held with no good results, but rather intrigues and ambitions which have only caused fresh trouble. We desire to be treated justly, and to have our rights recognised, as we are ready to recognise the rights of others. We have said that England and France committed an error (bêtise) in twice sending fleets to Alexandria without first consulting us; if they hazard this last blunder (i.e., a Conference) it will be 'le couronnement de la bêtise;'whether Her Majesty's Government will now carry out a clearly defined and independent British policy in order to secure the influence of England in Egypt and the security of the lives and property of British subjects, and to preserve the friendship of Turkey and of the Mussulman populations of the East?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEYes, Sir; I have seen the statements in question. It was on the advice of the Austrian and German Consuls General that the Khedive sent for Ragheb Pasha and intrusted the formation of a Ministry to him. Probably they had in view the temporary protection of European life and property. Her Majesty's Government are carrying out a clearly-defined policy in order to secure the influence of England in Egypt, and the security of the lives and property of British subjects.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether it is a fact that Her Majesty's Government are promoting a Conference against the strong opposition and protest of the Sultan, who is Sovereign of Egypt and head of the Mahometan world, and who has undertaken to restore order and the status quo ante in Egypt; whether, out of the six Powers who would take part in a Conference two, Austria and Germany, have, through their Consul-Generals in Egypt, pressed upon the Khedive the formation of a Ministry in which Arabi Pasha holds both the Ministries of War and Marine, notwithstanding the fact that Her Ma- 39 jesty's Government and that of France have formally demanded the deposition and exile of Arabi; whether it is a fact that the Italian Government are strongly opposed to French intervention or to the control by France of Egyptian affairs, and that the Russian Government are opposed to British influence in Egypt; and, whether, in view of these considerations, Her Majesty's Government will abandon their project of holding a Conference of the Powers, will adopt a resolute and independent British policy, and will revert to the traditional alliance with the Ottoman Government in order to end the crisis in Egypt and to secure the great interests of England in the East?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir, except so far as I have already answered portions of this Question in reply to the hon. Member's preceding Question, I am quite unable to reply to the interrogatories now administered to me, which raise many points of controversy. Her Majesty's Government are going into Conference with a clearly-defined policy, as will be seen when the instructions which have been addressed to Lord Dufferin come to be laid before the House. The Papers up to the 15th of May will be distributed to-morrow, and the Papers up to the end of May are now in preparation, and may, I hope, be distributed early in the week after next.
MR. ASHMEAD-BABTLETTWhen will the instructions to Lord Dufferin with regard to the Conference be laid before the House?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEThere are two sets of instructions to Lord Dufferin with regard to the Conference. The later set it would not be desirable at present to lay on the Table. Probably we shall be able to produce them in a short time.
§ MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTWhen will the Conference be held?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEIt was stated on Tuesday that the Conference would meet to-day, and I have no fresh information on the subject.
§ MR. GOURLEYasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, What provision has or can be made by Her Majesty's Government for the hearing of causes pending before the Consular Court in Egypt, and which, but for the disturbed condition of the country, should already have been heard?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKESir, we have not received any special report from Mr. Cookson; but I am happy to say that he is now nearly recovered, and the hearing of causes will, no doubt, be proceeded with as soon as the state of affairs will admit.