HC Deb 20 June 1882 vol 270 cc1753-6
MR. GIBSON

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, In what form had the constabulary and special and resident magistrates been induced to give their opinions on evictions; had any data been given them as to how they were to discriminate between ejectments which were not to be censured and those which they should describe as cases of hardship; were they to have any regard to the necessities of the landlord and his family; and, were the duties of censorship, as to the character of legal process, to be applied to all the creditors of the tenant, or to be confined to the landlord only?

MR. TREVELYAN

Sir, in the detailed report of evictions sent in by the constable or Sub-Inspector of the district, a statement is called for which is described as follows in the printed form: — This statement is to comprise information as to the circumstances of the case, the cause of evictions, whether they produced much hardship or excitement in the neighbourhood. Those are the instructions which are given. With regard to the last paragraph of the Question, the instructions were always held to relate to the evicting person, whether landlord or creditor. The late Mr. Burke altered the form, with a view of obtaining fuller particulars, about a year ago. I will give a specimen of two of the answers without the names— The case of A B is one of hardship, as ha was highly-rented, had indifferent land, and a large family. That of C D was not a case of hardship, as he could have paid his rent, and was comfortably off. Then, again— There was no hardship in this case. E F is a carpenter, and well able to pay his rent if so disposed; but ho wanted to get away with it, as he expects to get money from the Land League for allowing himself to be evicted. He has a new house, built for himself, where he intends to live. And, again — G H, wife, and eight children were evicted for non-payment of rent. The eviction was not a ease of hardship, as the rents were reasonable, and being admitted as caretaker, he had six months to redeem. And, again— Tenants had nowhere to go. These men were paying very high rent; nearly double valuation. These people were in a miserable state of poverty. The Special Resident Magistrates send in periodical reports of the nature of the evictions in their districts. Frequent Ministerial statements have been made in Parliament as to the contumacious refusal to pay rent among the tenants of Ireland. These statements would have been based on the reports to which I have referred, and I never have heard that their general accuracy or authority was disputed when used for this purpose. I hope I may take this opportunity to say a word of explanation. Having observed much criticism on the epithet "cruel," which I used the other day, I may say that I did not apply the epithet to the conduct of any landlord towards his tenant. What I did say was that those particular landlords who were carrying out evictions which were reported to the Government as cases of hardship were behaving in a cruel manner towards the Executive Government, which was trying to do its best under great difficulties. As often happens on a Wednesday, the newspaper report was much condensed, and so the mistake arose.

MR. J. LOWTHER

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman what machinery the authorities have invented for testing the value of the land, and the ascertaining whether it is over-rented?

MR. TREVELYAN

They have the valuation, the rent, and the number of years' rent due. The authorities have the same means of getting information on this subject that they have of getting materials for any Report on the peace and order or position of the district.

MR. GIBSON

said, the right hon. Gentleman had explained his meaning to be that the conduct of certain landlords towards the Executive Government was cruel. Could the right hon. Gentleman say whether or not those landlords were compelled to evict their tenants in order to obtain money wherewith to support their families; and, whether, if they ceased from evictions, the Government would enable them to support their families?

MR. TREVELYAN

I referred only to landlords who, being in the same position as the hon. Member for Carrick-fergus (Mr. Greer), did not take the same course as that Gentleman — the course, namely, of waiting for the Arrears Bill instead of proceeding with evictions.

MR. GIBSON

That was not my Question. Has the right hon. Gentleman satisfied himself that he has not made a charge of cruelty against landlords who are unable to support their families if they do not get their rents?

MR. TREVELYAN

It was only to those in the position of the hon. Member for Carrickfergus (Mr. Greer), and who did not follow his example, that I referred. That there are such landlords the Government are absolutely informed, but I do not say they are many. I hope and believe they are few.

MR. HEALY

May I ask if landlords are not as well able to work for their living as any other people?

MR. MITCHELL HENRY

asked whether a summary of the evictions could not be presented to the House, showing how many, in the opinion of the constable, were cases in which the tenants could not pay their rents, and how many were cases in which they were able, but wilfully refused to do so?

MR. TREVELYAN

No, Sir; I cannot undertake to place such Returns upon the Table of the House. Those Returns are given in great detail for the purpose of enabling the Government to form their judgment on peace and order in Ireland, and the Government draw from them the conclusions they think ought to be drawn, in whatever direction those conclusions point.

MR. GIBSON

Will the right hon. Gentleman communicate to the House what instructions have been given to the Constabulary with respect to the manner in which the means of the landlords are to be ascertained by them?

MR. O'SULLIVAN

asked whether it was not a fact that the landlords had lately evicted their tenants for the payment of half-a-year's rent in arrear only?

[No answer was given to these Questions.]