CLASS V.—FOREIGN AND COLONIAL SERVICES. (Hansard, 10 August 1882)

§ MR. MAGNIAC
said, that on this Vote he had conferred with his hon. Friend below him (Sir Charles W. Dilke). He would not, at that hour of 1477 the morning, detain the House any length of time; but he would just observe that the status of British Consuls in some foreign countries was not what it ought to be. Our Agents abroad were not the same as foreign Agents with us in regard to the taxes imposed on them, and such like things, which he would not now go into. He hoped the attention of the Government would be directed to the matter.

§ MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD
said, that the amount spent as a subsidy for the suppression of the Slave Trade in Muscat needed a full investigation, and he would recommend that the question at some future time should be carefully inquired into.

§ SIR HENRY HOLLAND
said, that last year it was proposed that the matter should be considered during the Recess; and he thought that they should have some statement as to whether it had been considered, or, if it had not been taken into consideration, that some reason would be advanced for such neglect. The subsidy was started some years ago quite as a temporary matter, and the Motion with regard to it had only been withdrawn on the understanding that the matter would be carefully considered.

§ MR. COURTNEY
said, there had been a Report on the matter; but he would inquire as to the position in which the subject stood.

§ SIR HENRY HOLLAND
said, he did not know whether the Financial Secretary to the Treasury could answer a question on this matter. Last year there was a question as to continuing Sir Arthur Gordon as West Pacific High Commissioner. There had been a strong opinion expressed that when that gen- 1478 tleman ceased to be Governor of Fiji he ought to have ceased to hold the office of High Commissioner, and that the post ought to have been given to the Governor of Fiji, or to the Commander-in - Chief on that station. He (Sir Henry Holland) should like to know whether the matter had been under the consideration of the Colonial Office?

§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEY
said, the whole of this question was under the consideration of the Colonial Office, and was in process of re-arrangement.

§ MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD
asked whether it was intended to take the grant for Cyprus after Class V. or after Class VII.?

THE CHAIRMAN
After Class VII.

§ MR. WARTON
said, that the item of £2,200 was really the extra charge for bringing Cetewayo to this country. ["No, no!"] Yes; he believed he was right this time.

§ MR. CROPPER
said, there was an item of £4,400 for the maintenance of Cetewayo this year.

§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEY
No; last year.

§ MR. CROPPER
said, that, no doubt, it would have to continue. Whatever the cost was, a great many people would like to know when it would come to an end. There were a large number of people who considered Cetewayo one of the most ill-used of men, and that, of all the cruel wars England had ever waged, none had been worse than that which had led to the deposition of the Zulu King, and the setting up in his place of John Dunn. There could be no doubt that Cetewayo had the sympathy of many people in this country; and he should like to know whether the Government had yet made up their minds what they would do with him? If Zululand was to be governed well, it seemed to him that it should be governed by a man of its own race. ["Hear, hear!"] He would not dispute with the hon. Gentleman opposite who cheered that sentiment as to whether the hon. Member and he (Mr. Cropper) were of the same race; but he was not of 1479 the same race as Cetewayo, and should not like to govern Cetewayo's country. Had the Government made up their minds as to what was to be done with the ex-King?

§ SIR HENRY HOLLAND
(who rose amid cries of "Agreed!" said, he must move to report Progress if he were not allowed to speak on this question. He had strongly opposed the Zulu War, and was of opinion that Cetewayo had been treated very badly; but he by no means thought it right to agree to Cetewayo going back to Zululand, as this country had entered into most solemn promises with the Chiefs; and unless their consent was obtained to his going back, the Government could not, in honour, allow him to do so. They must also get the consent of John Dunn; and if they did not get that consent, the only compromise would be to let Cetewayo have the rest of Zululand. If Cetewayo were restored in that way, he might fall into the hands of the Boers, and he and the other Natives might have a very hard time of it.

§ MR. DILLWYN
said, that if they did not let Cetewayo go back they might have to annex Zululand, and that would involve a much larger expenditure than had hitherto been incurred. He thought it would be the most reasonable course to let Cetewayo go back.

§ MR. CROPPER
said, there would be no difficulty in making an arrangement with John Dunn, because the whole country would soon be in a condition of the greatest disorder; and, if left as at present, war would before long break out.

§ MR. R. N. FOWLER
said, he could not agree with the hon. Member for Midhurst (Sir Henry Holland) that John Dunn deserved any great consideration, for he seemed to be a person of the very worst class with whom they could have to deal. He was a renegade Englishman, who had renounced all the virtues of civilization; and it was much better that the country should be governed by one whose faults were only those of his country than by an Englishman who had renounced all the virtues of civilization, and adopted all the vices of savage nations. He quite agreed with the hon. Member for Swansea (Mr. Dillwyn) that the only courses open were to annex the country, restore Cetewayo, or place it under the authority of John 1480 Dunn. The annexation of the country had been repudiated by all parties in that House, although he knew that course was advocated by a great many people in Natal. He did not expect to hear anyone in that House argue in favour of annexation, or advocate placing the country under John Dunn; and, under those circumstances, there seemed to him only one course, and that was to restore Cetewayo. So far as he could gather, it was the wish of the people to have their King restored. He had seen paragraphs in the Durban Correspondence of The Times in favour of John Dunn, and he had also seen a statement that the other day a meeting had been held at which Mr. John Robinson, a leading politician in Natal, had moved a Resolution against the restoration of Cetewayo, and carried it against Mr. Escombe; but, as the Committee knew, there had lately been an election at the wish of the Colonial Office in Natal. Mr. Robinson and Mr. Escombe solicited re-election, Mr. Robinson urging his claim on the ground of his opposition to the restoration of Cetewayo. Mr. Robinson, however, lost his election, while Mr. Escombe was elected. Under these circumstances, he thought it was evident that, though Mr. Robinson might be able to carry with him a meeting, yet, when the people of Natal were appealed to at the poll, they opposed Mr. Robinson and elected Mr. Escombe, who took a more favourable view of Cetewayo. He did not, however, think that that telegram deserved any great attention by the Committee; and, in his opinion, the best solution of all the difficulties would be the restoration of Cetewayo.

§ MR. ILLINGWORTH
said, he hoped the Government would not unduly delay the settlement of this question, because the country was occupying an undignified position with regard to this captive Chief. He could not understand the visit of Cetewayo to this country, unless there was an intention to restore him to his former position. By the Liberals the Zulu War was almost universally condemned; and he failed to see any outcome where justice would be done, and reasonable expectations satisfied, unless Cetewayo was restored. He was satisfied that this country would suffer in reputation and character in bringing Cetewayo here without some assurance that if he could make good his case and give some undertaking he would be restored.

§ MR. T. C. BARING
said, the opinion of the Committee seemed to be all running the same way; but, whatever the Government might choose to do, he could conceive nothing more unfortunate to the relations of England with her Colonies than the restoration of Cetewayo.

§ MR. EVELYN ASHLEY
said, all he could do was to repeat his answer that he was not in a position to give any definite information as to the intention of the Government with reference to Cetewayo; but before Parliament adjourned he hoped he should be in a position to give some definite information.

§ MR. WARTON
protested against the system adopted that evening of bringing in the Supplementary Votes and tacking them on to the Accounts. He did not object to any Votes; but he did object to this principle, and he hoped in future that Supplementary Votes would be treated as Supplementary Votes.

§ MR. COURTNEY
said, what had been done was in accordance with precedent, and that was not the first time this Session that this plan had been adopted. All the Members interested in these Votes were perfectly well aware of what was being done.

§ MR. WARTON
said, very bad things had often been done before, and the reason why this was a bad system was that the Supplementary Votes were not published until some of the earlier Votes had been got through.