MR. O'CONNOR POWERsaid, he rose to call attention to the conduct of the Sub-Inspector of Police at Ballina in searching certain houses of that town for arms. He thought it was always desirable, when questions of this description were raised, as far as possible, some effort should be made to test the opinion of the House with regard to it; and he wished to say that it was not his fault that it was impossible to take that course in the present instance. Mr. Ball occupied the position of Sub-Inspector in the town of Ballina; and he would ask the House to consider the character generally which that town had borne in the report of the police with regard to public agitation, and then to consider the character of the persons who were subjected to the visits made by the Sub-Inspector of Police, and to consider the action of a Sub-Inspector in proceeding to search the houses of some of the most respectable merchants of that town on information which proved to be as unfounded as the search which he instituted proved to be fruitless. So far as his information went, he acted on the information of this private informer, without going to the trouble of consulting any of the local magistrates, or even the Resident Magistrate. The town of Ballina was the largest town in the county of Mayo, and the town in which the great land agitation originated. It was a town that had been subjected to many temptations; it had had the influence of surrounding movements of a very excited character freely brought to bear upon it; and it was a singular fact that throughout all this time the town had been characterized by its loyal and peaceful character. He said that, as far as his information went, the officer in question, acting upon the statement of a private informer, and without consulting any of the local magistrates, not even the Resident Magistrate, proceeded to search the houses of some of the most respectable inhabitants of a town remarkable for being well affected. The Sub-Inspector procured a force of military and police to carry out 1145 his object. One of the men whose house was searched was Chairman of the Town Commissioners, and all of them bore an excellent character. Owing to the action of Sub-Inspector Ball, a population of 10,000 in the town, and at least as many more in the country around, had become disaffected, simply because their previous good conduct afforded them no protection. This was a dangerous lesson to teach any people, particularly at a time in the history of Ireland when the country was heated to boiling point by the political passions of the hour. When the Town Commissioners asked the Lord Lieutenant for an inquiry, they meant that they should obtain one of an independent character. But the inquiry they obtained was one conducted by one policeman into the proceedings of another. The right hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. E. Forster) had informed the House that it had been conducted by the County Inspector, who endorsed what the Sub-Inspector had done. The right hon. Gentleman also stated, in justification of the action of the Sub-Inspector, that though no arms were discovered, yet in the course of the search a case of revolvers had been removed from one shop to another. He found, however, that the person from whom the right hon. Gentleman derived that information was the very officer whose conduct had been incriminated. He maintained that with police surrounding the house, and stationed at all the doors, it would have been impossible that a case of arms could have been removed. There was no side of this story which did not show the Sub-Inspector of Ballina in an absurd and ridiculous position; and he thought when a gentleman occupying a responsible position had been found so incapable, the very least the inhabitants should be entitled to was to be relieved of his presence. He was not unreasonable enough to ask for his dismissal from the force; but his had been a great blunder, and there was a French proverb which told them that a great blunder was very often worse than a crime. The county Mayo was rather unfortunate. He was not entitled to call attention to Major Bond; but he did not know what grudge the Chief Secretary for Ireland had to Mayo that he should have thought a man who was unfit to be the head of the police in Birmingham was fit to be a Resident 1146 Magistrate in Mayo. They had also got there the eccentric Major Traill, whose conduct afforded amusement to the people. He was told that the Major drove into the town of Claremorris lately, and threatened to arrest his shoemaker under the Coercion Act because he had not mended a pair of his old boots. He protested against the people of his country being handed over to those men. He was aware that he was not now at liberty to make the Motion of which he had given Notice, owing to a division having been taken; but he had intended to move—
That, in the opinion of this House, the character of the town of Ballina, and that of the persona whose houses were needlessly and fruitlessly searched by Sub-Inspector Ball, aided by a large force of military and police, should have protected them from domiciliary visits, the only result of which has been to create general disaffection and discredit the administration of the law.Unless gentlemen occupying the position of Sub-Inspector Ball were taught to exercise discretion in the performance of their duties, he thought the Government were in a fair way of having their difficulties multiplied rather than removed, and having their efforts frustrated when they tried to restore peace and tranquillity to Ireland.
§ MR. W. E. FORSTERsaid, he could not complain of the tone of the remarks of the hon. Member for Mayo, although the hon. Gentleman had given rather a mistaken description of what had happened in that case. With regard to Major Traill, he could only state that the district under that gentleman's supervision, owing in some respects to his energy, was one of the most peaceable in the county of Mayo. As to the search for arms in Ballina, of course it was a disagreeable thing that such searches should be made; but there could be no doubt that arms were concealed in many parts of the country, and the Government would be liable to much deserved criticism if proper efforts were not made to take arms from those who ought not to have them. The hon. Member was wrong in supposing that the Sub-Inspector in that case had acted entirely on his own responsibility. The whole necessity for the search was acknowledged by the Resident Magistrate, and the arrangements were made between the Sub-Inspector and the Resident Magistrate. Upon consultation with Mr. 1147 Henn, it was considered necessary to employ the military in the search, there not being sufficient police for the purpose. Mr. Henn requisitioned the attendance of the military, and was, in fact, as much responsible for the search as the Sub-Inspector himself. It was true that no arms were found; and that was the case in almost every search that was made; but no one doubted that arms existed, or that it was remarkably easy to conceal them, and very difficult to find them, especially by searches that had to be made with considerable warning. With respect to the Chairman of the Town Commissioners, and another gentleman whose houses were searched, there was no suspicion that they were concealing arms; but they had several assistants in their business, and it was to see whether those assistants were breaking the law that the search was made. Upon full inquiry he thought the Sub-Inspector, in consultation with the Resident Magistrate, was justified in the course that was pursued; and in what was done there was a desire evinced to avoid, as far as might be, the giving of all unnecessary annoyance. Therefore, he thought he should have been much disregarding his duty if he had shown displeasure on the part of the Government at the action which had been taken. Arms were in possession of people in Ireland, and were used for very bad purposes; and he thought the House would accept the statement that the Arms Act was passed in order that, as far as possible, arms should be taken out of the hands of those who were likely to make a bad use of them. He admitted that Ballina was one of the most orderly towns in the West of Ireland—at any rate, it was one of which ho heard least—but still it appeared to the responsible authorities necessary, on account of the possible action of some few individuals in it, to make these searches that Sub-Inspector Ball had made. As to the complaint that the Government had merely sent down the County Inspector to inquire into the matter, he should say he thought it the proper course under the circumstances, and also that no evidence was adduced at that inquiry which could justify its being submitted to any other tribunal.
§ MR. SEXTONwished to say a few words on the subject of this Motion, which his hon. Friend the Member for 1148 Mayo had brought forward in such extremely moderate terms. Although he had no fault to find with the manner in which his hon. Friend had laid the case before the House, he thought his hon. Friend had considerable fault to find with the reply he had received. He thought that the right hon. Gentleman might have spared them his eulogium on Major Traill, one of those Resident Magistrates in Ireland who had done much to promote the state of affairs now existing in certain districts. They heard occasionally in that House very wise counsels from the Ministers of the Crown about the utility of protecting Civil affairs from the interference of the military in England; but the idea had never penetrated the walls of Dublin Castle. If his district were as peaceable as the right hon. Gentleman stated, why did Major Traill deliver from the Bench so much oratory with a strong flavour of gunpowder? The utmost that an official of his peculiar type could boast of was his selection from Dublin Castle, and the utmost that he could claim from Irish Members was the charity of their silence. This town of Ballina was situated partly in the county which he had the honour to represent, and he had some knowledge of it. He knew it to be inhabited by a very peaceable and industrious community; but he believed that its population were willing to take their stand with the rest of the Irish people, and would not claim for themselves an exemption from police indignities which they would not equally claim for their fellow-citizens of any other town. The maxim of the French statesman about too much zeal was not regarded by the Executive Government, and any blunder was readily condoned, provided that it was only directed against the Irish people. When the order went forth from Dublin Castle, the humble policeman or the Sub-Inspector had to obey. He thought he might say, with every confidence in that House, that where searches of this description were carried on in a country struggling with excited circumstances, and in a perilously troubled condition, they ought to be carried out under conditions that would tend to the preservation of the public temper and the public peace. Indeed, there were two considerations which ought carefully to be borne in mind. In the first place, when a police- 1149 man was about to institute a search, the Police Inspector ought first to consider well the sufficiency of the evidence upon which that search was to be made; in the second place, he should conduct that search in a careful, and not in an unnecessarily public manner; in the quiet, undemonstrative manner proper to a police officer. In Ballina the houses of the most substantial men were entered, the houses of men of substantial means and moderate principles. Surely these policemen must have known that if they had sent two or three officers, the gentlemen in question would Have allowed them to look into their cupboards and boxes for anything they suspected to be concealed. In England, one or two policemen would have been sent from Scotland Yard, and the whole affair would have been perfectly quietly managed. This was not enough for Sub-Inspector Ball; and he had in the unquiet state of the country, been guilty of a blunder which was a crime. He had gone to the quiet town of Ballina with the force and uproar of a battalion of Uhlans—perhaps his military aspirations had never been gratified before—and for once in his life his love of extensive military parade was satisfied. But the town of Ballina had additional reasons to feel discomfited and outraged; yet that town had been described by the Chief Secretary for Ireland as a quiet town. If these things were done in a green tree, what would be done in a dry? He had one good reason for not asking for the dismissal of Sub-Inspector Ball, and that was because he knew it would be no use. But he thought they might at least ask that his energy, which was his most conspicuous quality—for no one would say that his discretion was on a par with it—might be employed somewhere else than in the town of Ballina. He had made himself notorious and disliked in the place. If the right hon. Gentleman was wishful of preserving the peacefulness of this town in which he took so much pride, he might remove Sub-Inspector Ball to some place where he would be more popular, because not so well known.
§ MR. REDMONDdesired to say a few words before the House left the consideration of the subject before them. They had great reason to complain of the way in which the Chief Secretary for 1150 Ireland had treated the matter. It had always seemed to him that of the two Acts, that which was called the Protection of Person and Property Act and the Arms Act, the latter was the one which inflicted the greater hardship. Not one place only, but whole country sides, had been searched for arms without a single instance in which they had been found. It was impossible that policemen could be particular as to the information upon which they acted when so many fruitless searches were made. The additional responsibility of the Resident Magistrate only made the case worse. These searches were made at night. [Mr. W. E. FORSTER: They were not at night.] Well, if these were not at night, others were. The right hon. Gentleman seemed to regard those searches for arms very lightly. He had expressed a hope that the police would err on the right side—in other words, upon the side of searching the houses of innocent persons. This was very like the recommendation contained in a recent Circular issued by a County Inspector, and for which the Chief Secretary for Ireland was responsible, that the police should shoot men on suspicion. The action of the police in breaking into houses was a great provocation. Why did not the Chief Secretary for Ireland endeavour to prevent this source of disaffection? It was impossible for the Irish Members to assist the right hon. Gentleman in preserving order in Ireland. So long as the right hon. Gentleman had hand, act, or part in the government of Ireland tranquillity would be an impossibility, because the right hon. Gentleman was not a sufficiently strong politician to grasp the situation, or to control the men who, like County Inspector Smith, now acted in the name of the Government of Ireland. It appeared that police officers might issue Circulars inciting to murder without the knowledge or approval of the right hon. Gentleman. That course give rise to irritation and a spirit of retaliation among the people. Was it too much to expect that the right hon. Gentleman would stand up and make this concession to the wishes of the Irish Members, that the individuals who took the course in Ballina which was complained of would be removed from the town? It was often said the right hon. Gentleman and his Colleagues did not consult with the Irish Members on Irish affairs. If they did 1151 consult with them, their course of action, he believed, would be different. But they preferred to go on the even ten our of their way, and pursue a course of action in Ireland which was grounded on absolute ignorance of the real wants of the country, and which was carried out without a single spark of sympathy with the wishes or aspirations of the people. As long as that course of action was pursued the Government would be disgraced by such actions as the issue of the recent Police Circular, and the conduct on which the hon. Member for Mayo had commented to-night. He was not one of those who entirely regretted the continued blundering of the incompetent politicians who were responsible for the government of Ireland, because he was convinced that every blunder they made, every false step they took in the government of Ireland, brought nearer the day when their power in Ireland would be at an end, and when every vestige of British interference in Irish affairs would be swept away along with them.