HC Deb 23 June 1881 vol 262 cc1120-2
SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether the Government had yet received the information they expected from Potchefstroom; and whether any time could now be fixed for the Transvaal debate? Of course, there would be no objection to postpone the debate if it would be injurious to the Public Service; but the opportunity of challenging a most important part of the Colonial policy of the Government should not be postponed for several weeks merely because time could not be spared from the discussion in Committee of the Irish Land Bill. Why should it not come on on a fixed day? If the right hon. Gentleman could not name a day, perhaps he would, at any rate, contradict a statement which had been made with some appearance of authority in the newspapers, that it would not be taken until after the conclusion of the Committee on the Irish Land Bill.

MR. GLADSTONE

Sir, there is no authority whatever for the statement which has appeared in the newspapers. No one was authorized to make such a statement. We have received accounts, if not of the absolute and formal completion, at least the very near completion, of the measures taken in pursuance of what occurred at Potchefstroom. Therefore, on the understanding, as I said before, that the debate is desired, we do not wish to avoid it; but, with regard to the date, we shall be extremely desirous to finish the Committee on the Irish Land Bill. I will make this reservation, however, that the debate shall take place at a convenient time of the Session, when the House will be able to attend in large numbers without any difficulty; and I make it on the assumption and with the hope that we do not intend to spend many weeks on the further consideration of the Land Bill in Committee. Should that appear to be likely, it will be my duty to ask the House to adopt some measure to accelerate the proceedings. I do not give any pledge; but I hope the very first available day after the conclusion of the Committee on the Irish Land Bill will be given to the right hon. Gentleman. That will be in the interval which necessarily elapses between the Committee and the Report, consistently with the exigencies of Public Business.

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE

Sir, this Question has been on the Paper since before the Easter Holidays. It is one of great importance. Already considerable time has been lost on the representation of the Government that it is not convenient for the public interests that it should be discussed. That reason is no longer in force, and I hope we shall not be debarred from timely discussion on this matter. Even if it be impossible to finish the Committee on the Irish Land Bill as quickly as may be desirable, that need be no reason for setting aside a debate of the very highest importance on the Colonial policy of the Government.

MR. GLADSTONE

I entirely agree to the fairness of what has just been said by the right hon. Gentleman opposite. I feel the difficulty in which the House is placed by the extraordinary pressure of Public Business; and if a very long delay takes place I shall expect a renewal of the inquiry before the completion of the Land Bill in Committee.

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

The right hon. Gentleman, referring to the question to be discussed on Friday, stated that the Government had obtained the advantage of an important vote in the Army Estimates in consequence of the arrangement which had been come to. That was precisely the case with regard to this question. There has been no discussion at all.

MR. GLADSTONE

The two cases are totally different. The pledge we gave with regard to the Military Estimates was in consideration of the House abstaining from discussion which might have been brought on at a given time, and which was withdrawn for the convenience of Public Business. But, as far as my recollection serves me, there has been no time at which the discussion on Transvaal affairs could have been taken without being positively injurious to Imperial interests. Members opposite might have discussed the question; but it would have been impossible for the Government to have taken part in the discussion.