CLASS VI.—SUPERANNUATION AND RE-TIRED ALLOWANCES, AND GRATUITIES FOR CHARITABLE AND OTHER PURPOSES. (Hansard, 27 August 1880)

§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR
did not wish to delay the passing of the Vote; but to state, on behalf of some hon. Members, that they had not understood it was the intention of the Government to proceed with all the Estimates that evening. It was understood that only the Irish Votes, with the exception of that for the Irish Constabulary, would be taken. He did not understand it was proposed to go into the remaining Estimates that evening. He was perfectly aware they were on the Paper; and although he had had a number of notes upon which he had wished to furnish some remarks, he had taken them away thinking the Votes would not be dealt with. The Votes were certainly being passed very rapidly; but he would not like to offer any criticism upon them without his notes. He did protest, however, at the very short notice which hon. Members had had with regard to this matter. The Notice had not been on the Paper long enough to allow them to be generally aware that the Votes would be taken. Hon. Members beside him had not at all understood that it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the Votes now taken. They had abstained from moving to report Progress, inasmuch that they had agreed not to do so that morning. Unless a man stood alone and watched Vote by Vote, there would be seen, what they saw now, the Committee voting away£250,000 at a time without a criticism. They had been recently several hours discussing a Vote of£750,000; but if he had not risen they would have passed it in five minutes. He merely rose now to draw the attention of the Committee to the system of voting away millions of public money without any discussion at 2 o'clock in the morning.

§ LORD FREDERICK CAVENDISH
said, necessary Notice had been given that the Votes would be taken. He was entirely in the hands of the Committee, and unless the Government received any Notice of opposition they would be proceeded with. He proposed to take all 459 the Votes to which there was no Amendment.

§ MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR
wished to draw the attention of the Committee to two or three things in connection with the Vote. With regard to American refugees having special claims, there was an allowance of£80. He believed the names of a number of retiring officers were sometimes retained on the list after they were dead; and, therefore, he would like to know whether the persons mentioned in the list of the present Vote were really alive? Then, with regard to the distressed Spaniards who were in that condition at the time of the Peninsula War, it was somewhat remarkable that they should be still receiving allowances. An item was included under the name of Refuged Clergy. Although it was a very excellent thing that the minister of St. Paul's, Blackenbury, should be receiving£210, yet he could not see why such an item should be included in these Estimates. Why should he receive that allowance from the Government? There were a number of refuged clergy in England receiving allowances; and he would like to know, therefore, whether the Government proposed to assist any of the refuged Jesuits? Then, again, the Corporation of Berwick received a sum of£90 a-year for repairs to a bridge. Why should that be included in the Estimates? He believed the only reason was, that James the Scot crowned that bridge when he came to England. There was no reason why it should be continued in the present day. There were also many other such items in the Vote which might, at all events, be dealt with by some principle of commutation. There was a Motion by the hon. Member for Northampton (Mr. Bradlaugh) to reduce the Vote by£300; and he wished to point out that, although the Government had received Notice of opposition, the noble Lord was still taking the Vote that night.

§ LORD FREDERICK CAVENDISH
said, he had communicated with the hon. Member for Northampton to the effect that he would take the Vote that night; but the hon. Member was not in his place. The matters referred to by the 460 hon. Member for Queen's County (Mr. Arthur O'Connor) were of an exceptional nature. The American Royalists were refuged by an Act of George II. They were virtually dying out, and the only surviver was Captain Macdonald, who received£80 a-year. Those claims were never paid until after they had been properly advanced. In 1833, it was decided that no new names should be placed on the list of French refugees, and the only two pensions now being paid were to two widows. The grant to the Corporation of Berwick was an old grant of Charles II. to maintain the bridge of James I. It was paid from the Civil List up to the time of George IV., when the Committee of the House of Commons thought it should be annually voted. That small grant was now charged on the Revenue as a matter of good faith. It was one of the last charges of the kind binding on the country, as the remainder had died out.

§ MR. T. P. O'CONNOR
did not dispute the proposition that the Estimate was made in good faith; but he would ask whether it was not possible— as it was one of the great objections to these pensions that the country paid the sum over and over again, was there no means by which these pensions could be commuted, and so disposed of?

§ LORD FREDERICK CAVENDISH
said, no doubt, it was desirable; but it was not always possible.

§ MR. T. P. O'CONNOR
asked whether the stipend given to the minister of the French church at Portarlington was not charged upon the Consolidated Fund, and discontinued some years ago, when it was discovered that the congregation no longer existed?

§ MR. W. E. FORSTER
said, that the sums granted before the Union by the Irish Parliament disappeared with the disappearance of the congregation, with the exception of Portarlington. Under the circumstances, the Treasury felt they would no longer be justified in charging the stipend on the Consolidated Fund. The present recipient was appointed in the belief that the stipend was attached to the office. The Treasury regarded it 461 as a ease of vested interest, but would take care that no successor was appointed to the present holder.