MOTION FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 22 March 1867)

§ MR. BRUEN
said, he rose to move for a Select Committee to inquire into the justice of a claim for compensation to the late Inspectors of Weights and Measures in Ireland for the loss of their offices. He thought it was unfair to employ men for the best years of their lives in offices which they had reason to believe would be permanent, and then, when it was found that their services could be dispensed with, to displace them without compensation, leaving them, as was in many instances the case, to die of starvation by the roadside. Many of those gentlemen who held these appointments had given up others in order to accept them. Almost all of the officers whose case he was bringing before the House had received testimonials of their efficiency, and resolutions recommending the grant of compensation to them had been passed by the grand juries of various counties and the municipal corporations of several boroughs. The Act of 1860 had been amended by a subsequent Act in 1862; but a proviso introduced into that Act had proved fatal to the measure. The Act of 1835, which appointed these Inspectors, gave power to levy certain fees, and provided for penalties in cases of impingement. He hoped the House would consent to grant this Committee.

§ MR. PIM
seconded the Motion.

LORD NAAS
said, it was with great reluctance that be must ask the House to take a view of the case different from that of the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. The fact was admitted that considerable hardship had been inflicted on those officers by the Act of 1860. He must, however, observe that they were not persons who gave up the whole of their time 414 to the performance of their public duties, and that they did not occupy a position similar to that of officers in whose case compensation for loss of office was usually given. Upon that point, however, he did not lay much stress, the real question for the consideration of the House being out of what fund the proposed compensation was to be paid. It was in 1862 suggested by the then hon. Member for Youghal (Mr. Butt) that it should be paid out of the local rates; but that suggestion was received with general disfavour, in fact no one else supported it. The demand now made was that the compensation should come out of monies to be voted by Parliament; but with every disposition to relieve those officers, he could not see how a case could be made out for doing so out of the public funds. There was no recent precedent for the adoption of such a course, and he was sure that it would be resisted, not only by the present but by the late Secretary to the Treasury, on public grounds. It would therefore be simply deluding those officers to hold out to them false hopes by acceding to the Motion of his hon. Friend for inquiry. The more candid and straightforward course was to negative the proposal.

§ MR. SYNAN
said, the late officers of weights and measures in Ireland were paid by fines and fees, a portion of which were now paid in aid of the salaries of the clerks of petty sessions. The Imperial Treasury, consequently, had the benefit to that extent of the fines and fees, for it would be the duty of the State, if the fines and fees were not so appropriated, to make up to the clerks of sessions any deficiency in their salaries. The principal portion of the time of these gentlemen was occupied in such a way as to keep them from other occupations, and they had a fair ground for coming to that House to ask how the funds were applied which might have been rendered available for their assistance. He thought that a fair ground had been shown for the appointment of a Committee.

§ MR. VANCE
said, that the late inspectors of weights and measures in Ireland did not at the present moment ask for compensation, but only asked for inquiry. The noble Lord said that those officers were not appointed by the Crown, but by the grand juries. He had, however, known men in a good position, and having friends in that House, to obtain pensions, though they had received no appointment from the Crown—he alluded to the proctors in 415 the different Courts of Probate, and he trusted that the claims of the inspectors of weights and measures would not be disregarded, because they happened to be humble men without influence. He knew one case in which the whole of the officer's time had been employed, and that in many they had been reduced to great straits.

§ GENERAL DUNNE
said, he thought it would be better for the late inspectors to submit their case to the Treasury, and to the justice of the House, than to have a Select Committee appointed. They had made out their case.

§ MR. PIM
said, he did not see how justice could be done without the appointment of a Committee, whose business would be to ascertain whether compensation should be granted. The noble Lord had fully admitted the justice of the case, and the House ought to see that justice was done.

§ MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE
said, he thought that the noble Lord had taken the wisest, and even the kindest course, in declining to submit the case to a Select Committee. It was not to be expected that the result of inquiry by a Committee would induce the Government to pay the compensation asked for out of the public funds, for the fines and fees went to the relief of the local funds. He was sorry for the condition of the persons whose case was brought under consideration, but he should feel it his duty to vote against the appointment of a Committee.