HC Deb 02 August 1867 vol 189 cc766-9
MR. THOMSON HANKEY

said, he would beg to ask Mr. Speaker, Whether he has been informed of a meeting having taken place in the Tea-Room of the House on Monday the 29th instant, which was attended by other gentlemen than Members of the House, and at which speeches were made by such gentlemen relating to proceedings then about to be discussed on the progress of a Bill through this House, or in a Committee of the Whole House; and, whether such a proceeding is, in his opinion, in accordance with the established rules of the House?

MR. SPEAKER

The Committee Rooms of this House are, during the Session of Parliament, under the charge of the Sergeant-at-Arms. As the Question has reference to the duties of an officer of this House, I shall be happy to answer it. It is well known that occasionally Members desiring to confer together on matters of business before the House apply to the Sergeant-at-Arms to place one of the Committee-Rooms at their disposal, and when this request is complied with it is generally on the understanding that the room will be limited to the use of Members only. It is true that on Monday last a meeting of a different and of quite an unusual character took place—in the terms of the Question— A meeting in the Tea-Room, which was attended by other gentlemen than Members of the House, and at which speeches were made by such gentlemen relating to proceedings on the progress of a Bill through the House. And the Question for me is whether such a proceeding is in accordance with the established rules of the House? The proceeding in question is not in accordance with the established rules of the House. I believe the transaction is of a novel character. As soon as information of the meeting was given to the Deputy-Sergeant-at-Arms, who was in attendance, he, with great propriety, proceeded to the room and informed the embers mpresent that the course pursued was quite irregular. The meeting broke up and the members dispersed. It gives me great satisfaction to add that the Members who were instrumental in calling the meeting have informed the Sergeant-at-Arms that they were not aware that the course pursued was a breach of Order, and have expressed their regret that the irregularity should have been committed. I feel, therefore, that under these circumstances there should be no difference of opinion in the House on the subject. There will be a general agreement that the ancient rule and practice must be upheld, that the rooms of this building must be reserved for the use of Members only, and for such purposes as may be permitted. I have no doubt that is the opinion of the House, and that there will be no repetition of this proceeding.

MR. AYRTON

I should like to put another Question to you, Sir, having reference to this subject. I have observed, as a matter of fact, that the Tea-room has been largely used for the convenience of Members who desire to consult with their constituents. It is obvious that if Members of the House have to communicate with their constituents, or other persons interested in the business before the House, some observations must be made upon the one side and the other, and in that respect the conference that took place on Monday last does not differ from any other conference I have seen in the Tea-room. The question then arises, is there no part of this vast building in which Members of the House of Commons can communicate with their constituents on subjects connected with the business of the House, and are Members of the House of Commons to be thus placed in a position different from that of any other body of persons who meet to transact business? If so, I must say that this is one of the most inconvenient buildings that have been devised for the use of man; and I would ask you, Sir, to be good enough during the recess to communicate with the authorities on such matters, in order that the convenience referred to may be extended to Members of the House.

MR. SPEAKER

The Question addressed to me by the hon. and learned Member is entirely different from that of which notice has been given; because, if I am rightly informed, the gentlemen present at the meeting constituted themselves into a sort of public meeting. A chairman was appointed, and addresses were delivered. Now, that involves a totally different point from that before raised. My answer was given on the point of employing any room in this House for the purpose of a meeting of this description. With regard to the Question now raised, I am quite aware that inconveniences of the nature referred to arise from the arrangements of the House, and they have been lately increased in consequence of the hotels and other buildings in Palace Yard, where deputations were accustomed to assemble, having been pulled down. The Question of the hon. and learned Member is, I admit, important and worthy of consideration; but it should, perhaps, be rather addressed to those who have charge of the public buildings than to myself.

MR. KINNAIRD

I wish to say upon this subject that it is impossible for Members who are really attending to their business in the House to go to distant hotels, in order to confer with their constituents, or any others who may wish to speak with them in reference to the business before the House. The House ought certainly to provide some accommodation of the kind asked for.

MR. WHALLEY

The object of my rising is to address the same Question to the First Minister of Works. I ask him, in the first place, whether it is within the cognizance of the Committee that was lately appointed on the recommendation of this House to take notice of the inconvenience to which Members are subjected who have business to transact with strangers; and, if not, then, whether he would consider it within his own cognizance, and endeavour to remedy the inconvenience? I put this Question to the noble Lord, because whenever I had any communication with his predecessor on matters of a similar nature, I was received with the greatest courtesy, and the inconvenience was removed.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

There is no doubt that the subject referred to strictly comes within the province of the Select Committee appointed to consider the arrangements of the House. That Committee has concluded its labours for the present, but it is proposed that it should be re-appointed as soon as Parliament re-assembles.

MR. J. STUART MILL

As one of the Members who was present in the Tea-room on the occasion in question, I desire to express my regret for having unwittingly been guilty of an irregularity against the forms of this House, an irregularity of which I was not aware at the time. In order to set one point right, I desire to say that the conference in question was not in the nature of a public meeting. It was really a deputation to consult with certain Members of Parliament, and nothing in the way of speech-making was done which is not usually done at deputations.

COLONEL STUART KNOX

I would ask the hon. Member whether it is not a fact that members of the Reform League at that meeting in the Tea-room held out a threat that unless hon. Members voted in support of their views those Members need not put themselves forward again as candidates for metropolitan constituencies?

MR. J. STUART MILL

I heard no such statement from any person present, whether a member of the Reform League or not.