HC Deb 22 July 1858 vol 151 cc1962-5

Order for Committee read.

House in Committee.

MR. VERNON SMITH

said, as the Bill had been introduced without any statement on the part of the Government, he, without intending to offer any opposition, wished to ask, what were the reasons for renewing powers which ceased at the termination of the Russian war. The Bill differed from an ordinary Continuance Bill, as it was for the purpose of reviving an Act which was considered to have expired. He did not doubt that the state of affairs in India had induced the Government to introduce the Bill; but in order to afford an opportunity for some explanation, he would ask whether it was intended to increase the number of European troops serving in India.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he would allow that the Bill was not properly a continuance Bill, but one to revive the law enacted in 1854. When he introduced the Bill he mentioned that fact, but it being at a very late hour he did not make any lengthened statement, nor was any particular statement necessary. It had been introduced for a very simple reason. The recruiting for the army had been continued with great spirit, and during the last two months with greater success than could have been expected, but it would readily be understood that it was undesirable to send out raw levies to India. They all knew the danger, if not the certain consequence of sending out green youths to India, and therefore it was highly expedient that the Government should have the power of availing themselves of seasoned troops, some of whom were still in this country, and others serving in our colonial possessions. For that reason the Government deemed it their duty to ask Parliament to give them the power of employing, if necessary, a portion of the militia in relief of those veteran soldiers, until the new levies should be fit to undertake the duties. That was the only reason for introducing the Bill, and he hoped Parliament would not refuse to grant the powers asked for, and which might, under certain circumstances, be most important for the efficient conduct of the war in India.

MR. VERNON SMITH

said, the right hon. Gentleman had not mentioned whether it was intended to send additional troops to India beyond the complement of Europeans now in that country.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, the number of troops in India would not be increased by the Bill. When he introduced it there was no intention of sending out additional troops, but the Government of course reserved the right and duty of sending additional troops, if necessary. That was a question quite apart from the Bill, which, however, would greatly facilitate such action on the part of the Government. He did not wish Parliament to infer from anything he said that the Government did not intend to send additional troops to India.

Clause 1.

COLONEL GILPIN

said, he objected to the continuance of some of the provisions of the former Act. By Clause 7 it was enacted that no officer of the militia while out of the united kingdom should rank with officers of the regular army higher than the grade of lieutenant colonel. That regulation operated unfairly towards colonels of militia, and imposed upon them certain duties from which they had a right to be exempted. The origin of that clause dated as far back as 1813, when an Act was passed to enable militia regiments to volunteer for active service, and it was thought that colonels of militia in the field ought not to be permitted to hold the rank of brigadier in command. The intention now was to employ the militia in garrison duties, and he could not see what difference there could be between those duties performed at Malta, or Gibraltar, and those performed at Portsmouth. A militia colonel was not likely to be in the command of the garrison, because besides the governor there was always a full colonel of artillery and one of engineers, but even should such an event happen for a few days there need be no fear that the dependency would be lost, for the only duty of the colonel would be to receive official letters. He did not mean to say all militia colonels were equally good; neither were the colonels of the line. Some colonels are civilians, some military; but had we no civilian colonels in the Peninsular war? As examples of civilian officers he might refer to the Marquess of Anglesey and Lord Lynedoch; and he never heard it was necessary, even in the early part of their brilliant and successful career, to put dry-nurses over their heads. The Duke of Richmond also was in the militia; and was a young officer in the line to be put over his head, suppose he were with his men in Malta or Gibraltar? Nothing in his opinion could more tend to damp the ardour of the militia regiments than the abrupt dismissal of some of the regiments a short time ago, and he could not help thinking that it was unfair to require of them to go beyond the sphere of their constitutional duties, and then to alter the Queen's regulations to their prejudice.

GENERAL PEEL

said, the clause was by no means a new one, but was to be found incorporated in every Act of Parliament upon the subject. Nothing could be further from his intention than to say one word which could bear the construction of being disparaging to the colonels of militia. There were many of them quite capable, no doubt, but, upon the other hand, there were several who were not fit to perform the duties of commanders of garrisons. What he was anxious to guard against was the entrusting the command to such places as Malta, for instance, to militia colonels who happened to have little or no military experience. He would not, however, hesitate to meet the objections of the hon. and gallant Gentleman so far as not to call upon those officers to do duties abroad which they would not be called upon to do in garrison here. He would bring up a clause with that object on the Report.

MR. ROEBUCK

said, he wished to call the attention of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to the fact that the question of promotion in the milita appeared to be entirely in the hands of the Lord Lieutenants of counties, and that the impression prevailed that favouritism to a great extent was the consequence. Militia officers would feel much more confidence in the justice of the system if promotion were given upon the responsibility of a military authority such as the right hon. and gallant Gentleman himself.

GENERAL PEEL

said, there was a Commission now sitting whose duty it was to inquire into the whole question of the organization of the militia, and that the point to which the hon. and learned Gentleman referred would no doubt form one of the subjects of investigation.

GENERAL CODRINGTON

said, he thought that a matter well worthy of the consideration of the Secretary for War was the youth of the recruits who were at present enlisted in the service. Many of them were so young as to render it much more likely that they would have to be sent to hospital than to the headquarters of their regiment upon their arrival in India.

MR. BLACK

said, he wished to call attention to the inconvenience to which the billeting system gave rise in small towns in Scotland.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, he must remind the hon. Gentleman that the Bill under discussion was one the object of which was to send the militia out of England.

Clause agreed to, as were also the remaining Clauses.

House resumed.

Bill reported, as amended, to be considered To-morrow, at Twelve o'Clock.