HC Deb 02 July 1858 vol 151 cc874-7
MR. H. BERKELEY

said he wished to ask the Chief Commissioner of Works whether he has received any communication from the Metropolitan Board of Works respecting the Main Drainage of the Metropolis—and, if so, to request that he will state whether the outfall of sewage be proposed to take place on the north side at Barking Creek, nearly opposite to the Warren at Woolwich, or where? During a long Parliamentary career the present was only the second instance in which he had availed himself of discussing a question on the Motion for the adjournment of the House. He did so now because a very strong opinion prevailed out of doors that on the very important question of the state of the Thames there existed great apathy on the part of the House, and on the part of the Government, who ought to have come down to the House, have taken the initiative, and have asked for plenary powers, and grappled with this great evil. If the matter were not dealt with before Parliament rose, it would no doubt be hung up in red tape, and perhaps not dealt with at all. He was surprised at the silence of the metropolitan Members, and still more surprised at the opinion of those hon. Members, who seemed to think that the matter should be dealt with locally and not nationally. He differed from that opinion toto cœlo. His opinion was that it was a great national question, and ought to be so dealt with. Committees and Boards sitting in different places would be of no advantage; the proper plan was for the Government to act upon the centralizing principle and ask for dictatorial powers. The House would be the more bound to concede such powers, because it was it own legislation which had principally led to the creation of this gigantic nuisance. A few years ago the Members of both Houses found their olfactory nerves much affected by the nuisance of night carts; that was about the time of the reign of Mr. Chadwick, who was considered an authority for everything. Among the powers entrusted to him was that of preventing night carts from coming Between the wind and their nobility. What was the consequence? Why, that the ordure of this great city was conveyed away not in carts, but Chadwick and the House of Commons plunged 100,000 cesspools into the Thames. The stuff was there out of sight, and the House of Commons and the House of Lords never for one moment fancied that there were poor inhabitants on the banks of the Thames who could not get away from the nuisance. If extraordinary heat had not prevailed, and the noses of hon. Members been affected, the matter might never have been considered. When they were affected it was astonishing to see hon. Gentlemen who had been parties to throwing this filth into the river, turning round and saying, "God bless me, where can it come from?" And then they said, "What is the Board at Westminster doing; what are they doing in the City of London; has the Lord Mayor got into Petticoat Lane?" It was necessary that they should give full power to counteract this evil. He appealed to them on behalf of the inhabitants of the banks of the river whose noses were forced to be continually in the smell, who could not go to their country houses and to the moors. There were also the merchants and bankers who were tied down to their places in the city. He trusted that the Government would give some promise that before the House rose they would ask for those powers which they ought to be proud on this occasion to demand. It was a question which the Government should be ready to meet. Let them prove their utility. They were a weak Government, but they would strengthen themselves immensely if they met this evil. If they did not do so, they would deserve the contempt they would meet with from every class of the community.

MR. GLADSTONE

observed, that he could not help saying a few words with regard to the arrangement of business in connection with this question. A short time ago an hon. Member who represented an important metropolitan constituency gave notice of his intention to submit a Motion with the view of ascertaining what was the opinion of the House upon the question from whence the funds should come by which this great change was to be effected. The hon. and talented Member (Mr. H. Berkeley) had said he had heard hon. Members asking from whence the vile smell could come; but he (Mr. Gladstone) had never heard that question asked on the contrary, he had never met a single person who was at all sceptical on the subject. But a question which he had often heard asked was where the sum was to come from by which the vile smell was to be cured. He would put it to the hon. Member who had given that notice of Motion (Mr. Cox), to Her Majesty's Government, and to that House, that it would be convenient to have an early day fixed for the consideration of the subject, which was to the full as important as the hon. Member had represented it to be. Her Majesty's Government would confer a great service on the country if they would deal resolutely and definitively with the whole question—but at the same time it would not be fair to press it upon them as if it was the duty of the Executive, as a matter of right, to be prepared at once with a complete solution. There were several important considerations connected with the subject. First, there was the important question of the mechanical and material means to be employed for curing the evil; secondly, the source from which the funds were to be raised, upon which he (Mr. Gladstone) held a very strong opinion and one not in unison with that of the hon. Member for Bristol. And, thirdly, the important question arose, if it should be the opinion of that House that London, the richest city in the world, should not bear the cost of draining its own river, as was done by less wealthy and less important places, what would be the future position of local government in London if that House interfered to do that which ordinarily, ought to be done locally? He thought it would probably aid the progress of business if they would fix an early day for the Motion of the hon. Member for Finsbury.