COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 6 August 1857)

§ MR. H. B. SHERIDAN
said, that all offices carrying on the business of insurance ought to be brought under the operation of the Bill. Many species of insurance would be exempted from the restrictions which it imposed.

§ MR. BUCHANAN
said, he had been instructed by nearly all the Scotch offices to oppose the Bill, but, in consequence of some clauses which had been added, he was now relieved from that disagreeable duty.

§ MR. H. B. SHERIDAN
said, he thought it unjust that the Bill should apply only to the new companies. He did not see why certain offices should enjoy immunity from the provisions of the Bill because they had been in existence previous to the 7 & 8 Vict. The old companies involved property to the amount of millions, and if the public required protection, that protection was as much required for the shareholders and insurers in them as in the new. The object of the Bill was to provide security for the solvency of insurance companies, and these companies had a capital and transactions which represented £350,000,000 As population, wealth, and education increased insurance companies would extend; but the effect of this Bill would be to fetter the action of the younger companies, and 1148 to check enterprise in a direction in which it was most desirable that it should receive encouragement.

THE CHAIRMAN
called the hon. Member to order. His observations went to the principle of the Bill, not merely to the particular clause, and ought to have been urged upon the second reading.

§ MR. H. B. SHERIDAN
said, he should propose an Amendment on the clause in conformity with his arguments. And he hoped he should not be restricted in his observations which were strictly relevant to the question. There was no justice in bearing hard upon the young companies.

MR. WILSON
observed, that the Bill consisted of two parts—the first, referring to the constitution of companies, being optional; and the second, enacting that perfect publicity should be given to the whole of the transactions being compulsory. The security for which the hon. Gentleman was anxious was provided by the latter part of the measure, which was compulsory upon all companies, whether they were established before or since 1844.

§ MR. SPOONER
said, if the old companies were not exempted from the provisions of the Bill, companies established by Act of Parliament or Charter from the Crown would come under its operation.

§ MR. H. B. SHERIDAN
said, that was no answer to his argument, which was, that if new legislation was necessary at all, it was as necessary for the old companies as the new.

MR. SCOTT
said, such a Bill should not have been brought forward at such an advanced period of the Session, involving as it did capital to the amount of hundreds of millions, and applying to the operations of insurance companies all over the country. It was impossible to do full justice to the subject, and improper to force it on in the absence of the hon. Members most acquainted with it. Two Bills relating to the same subject had been previously introduced, and this Bill, No.3, was not delivered to hon. Members until yesterday afternoon. It was, therefore, impossible that the insurance companies throughout the country could be acquainted with its provisions. He was not adverse to legislation on the subject, if it was such sound, accurate legislation as would not require alteration, and not such hasty and unsound legislation as only tended to unsettle the 1149 public mind. The proper time for breeding birds and Bills was not the autumn but the spring; and they should be carefully hatched.

THE CHAIRMAN
stated that this was so. The hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. Scott) should speak to the Clause and the Amendment.

MR. SCOTT
said, he was aware of that, and thought he was doing so. There was no reason for excluding the old offices from the Bill. No doubt since 1844 there had been a spirit of speculation and a system of "insurance offices" more like betting houses. They required some legislation, but the present Bill would only lead to further legislation and increase the mischief which existed.

§ MR. AYRTON
said, the hon. Gentleman was irregular; unless he intended to move that the Chairman leave the chair. If so, the speech was very much to the purpose.

§ MR. H. B. SHERIDAN
said, he should divide the House.

MR. SCOTT
complained of the course which had been taken in calling hon. Members to order. The hon. Member who called him to order (Mr. Ayrton) had not heard the Amendment, but the effect of the Amendment was to include all companies; and his observations had been germane to that matter.

§ MR. W. EWART
said, he would put it to the Government whether it was of any use to persist in a Bill of 120 clauses which was encountering such an opposition.

MR. SCOTT
moved that the Chairman report progress.

§ MR. HADFIELD
said, he also would press the postponement of the Bill, which involved great interests, and introduced a new principle.

§ MR. BUCHANAN
observed, that he wished the Bill to go on.

§ MR. TITE
also declared it was much desired by all the large companies, and had been settled by the leading actuaries; and it was calculated to do much good.

MR. SCOTT
said, the Bill was one which would affect great interests, and should not be passed in a hurry.

§ MR. H. B. SHERIDAN
said, he was not surprised to hear that certain hon. Members should support the Bill, for they represented large companies excluded from the Bill. The hon. Member for Glasgow (Mr. Buchanan) had that very morning succeeded in securing exception for the company he represented; and the hon. Member for Bath (Mr. Tite), who represented a company of great antiquity, which would be excluded from the Bill, was of course well satisfied with it.