§ SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFEinquired whether it was true that Mr. Phinn, the Member for Bath, had been appointed to the office of Assistant Secretary to the Board of Admiralty?
§ MR. WILSONsaid, he believed so.
§ SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFEthen moved, that a writ be issued for the election of a burgess to serve in Parliament for the City of Bath in the room of Mr. Phinn, 1188 who had accepted an office under the Crown.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, the office Mr. Phinn had accepted was not an office under the Crown, but under the Admiralty, and his acceptance did not, therefore, necessarily vacate his seat. He believed, however, that the hon. and learned Gentleman had already taken steps for that purpose.
§ SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFEasked if the right hon. Gentleman meant to say that Mr. Phinn had applied for the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, Mr. Phinn had applied for the office in question, and a grant had been made, but he could not say whether it had gone through all the official forms. There could be no doubt, however, that the office would be conferred upon Mr. Phinn, in order to allow him to vacate his seat.
§ SIR CHARLES WOODstated that, in appointing Mr. Phinn to the office of Assistant Secretary to the Board of Admiralty, he told him that, as the person holding the post did not change with the Government, he must not again appear in his place in Parliament. Hon. Gentlemen opposite, therefore, need not be under any apprehension of Mr. Phinn recording his vote that evening.
§ SIR FREDERIC THESIGERbelieved that the hon. Baronet in making this Motion was actuated, not by a desire of preventing the hon. and learned Member for Bath attending in his place to-night and recording his vote, but because he believed that the hon. and learned Member had really vacated his seat. ["No."] He admitted that it was wrong to suppose that the acceptance of the office of Assistant Secretary to the Board of Admiralty necessarily implied that Mr. Phinn could no longer hold his seat; but they had now learned from the Chancellor of the Exchequer that Mr. Phinn had accepted an office—the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds—for the express purpose of enabling him to vacate his seat, although the right hon. Gentleman was not certain whether the grant had been finally completed or not. Now, he apprehended that it was not the making out the grant, but the acceptance of the office, which vacated the seat; and that, therefore, the hon. Baronet the Member for Petersfield was perfectly in order in the Motion he had made.
§ SIR CHARLES WOODsaid, he had had some experience as Chancellor of the Exchequer, and would therefore state that the mode of dealing with the Chiltern Hundreds was this:—If a person wished to vacate his seat in Parliament, he applied to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds, and it was in the discretion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give the office or not as he pleased. If the application was to be granted, the practice was for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to write a letter to the applicant, stating that he had conferred upon him the office in question—and it was the receipt of that letter that constituted the acceptance of the office. He could not say whether that form had been gone through in the present instance or not.
§ SIR FITZROY KELLYconsidered that it was entirely immaterial whether all the official forms had been gone through, or whether the patent or grant had been formally completed. According to law, and the invariable usage of that House, whenever an office was granted under the Crown, and the person had intimated his acceptance of it, from that moment his seat was vacant, and a writ was moved for as soon as possible. Such appeared to him to be the position of the present case.
SIR FRANCIS BARINGsaid that having held the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer, he might be allowed to make a few remarks upon the point before the House. There could be no doubt that if a man applied for an office, and the office was given to him, or if a man was offered an office, and he accepted it, it was not necessary that he should go through all the official forms in order to vacate his seat. But there must be two parties to every transaction of this kind; there must be an application on the one side, and a conferring of the office on the other; and it was no proof that Mr. Phinn had vacated his seat to say that he had applied for the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds, and would probably get it. They must wait until they had evidence before them that the office had been conferred upon him, and that he had accepted it.
§ SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFE rose to explain. It was only within the last few minutes that he had learned that Mr. Phinn had accepted an office under the Board of Admiralty. When the fact was mentioned to him he thought it would be a pity to have the writ suspended over the holidays, 1190 and hence the motion he had submitted to the House. Seeing, then, that Mr. Phinn had applied for the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds, he hoped there would be no objection to his proposition.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, he would state exactly what had occurred. He received that morning an application from Mr. Phinn for the office of the Chiltern Hundreds in order to enable him to vacate his seat in consequence of his appointment as Assistant Secretary to the Board of Admiralty. The grant of an office under the Crown was brought to him for signature, and he signed it that morning; but he could not say whether the grant had already reached Mr. Phinn, and therefore could not answer to the House for its actual acceptance. He knew, however, that directions had been given for its transmission to Mr. Phinn, and he believed it was the intention of the Secretary to the Treasury to move a writ before the House rose.
§ MR. DISRAELIsaid, his experience as Chancellor of the Exchequer was not so long as he could have wished, but he had the opportunity upon several occasions of conferring offices under the Crown, and he thought it ought to be understood that when an application was made and granted the office had been accepted.
§ SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFEsaid, he withdrew his motion, as his object would be attained by having the writ moved for before the holidays.