HC Deb 14 July 1853 vol 129 cc236-7

Order for Second Reading read.


said, he must appeal to the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland not to proceed with a measure of so much importance at that late hour of the evening [half-past twelve o'clock]. He had no wish to obstruct the progress of business, and if the right hon. Gentleman would fix an early day for this Bill, he (Mr. Whiteside) would be perfectly willing to shorten the matter by discussing a Bill which he had on the paper, the Sale of Lands (Ireland) Bill, and the one now before the House both at the same time—[Laughter]—at least one after the other.


said, he thought that the Bill ought to be read a second time that evening. He (Sir J. Young) had a few days ago assented to the Bill, to which the hon. and learned Gentleman alluded, being read a second time, on the understanding that it was not to be further proceeded with; and if the hon. and learned Gentleman now placed that as a rival to the present Bill, he thought it was but fair that the latter should also receive a second reading. This Bill had been maturely considered in the other House, and he therefore proposed now to take the second reading, on the understanding that ample opportunity should be given for discussing it either on going into Committee or in Committee.


said, he must deny that he had ever had any communication with the right hon. Gentleman on the subject of the Bill to which he had alluded, or that he had ever given any pledge that it should not be proceeded with beyond the second reading. It was a Bill to which he had never heard any objection, and which had the sanction of the late Lord Chancellor of Ireland. He had no desire to obstruct the progress of law reform; but if a Government which had never introduced a single original measure on this subject—[Loud cries of "Order!" amidst which the hon. and learned Gentleman resumed his seat].


said, that without going into any angry discussion, he thought the hon. and learned Gentleman must see that the Government were entitled to ask him to allow this Bill to be now read a second time. The hon. and learned Gentleman had offered to discuss his Bill and the Bill of his right hon. Friend (Sir J. Young's) together; but how could that be done if the two Bills did not stand on the same footing? As the one Bill had been read a second time, he thought the other should be allowed to pass the same stage.


said, that he should have no objection to accede to the noble Lord's suggestion, if he was understood not to be precluded thereby from pressing at a future stage the strong objections which he entertained to the principle of this Bill, which was in many respects different from the former Encumbered Estates Act.


said, that of course the hon. and learned Gentleman would not be precluded from offering any opposition to the Bill at a future stage.


said, that the measure was one of the most unjust and unprecedented ever introduced into that House. He objected to the principle of the Bill, and hoped the hon. and learned Member for Enniskillen (Mr. Whiteside) would persist in his opposition. It was not fair to Ireland to press this Bill at so late an hour. He would observe also that the time when Irish Members were at the assizes was the time always chosen for bringing in or pushing forward obnoxious Bills. He should certainly move that the debate be adjourned.


hoped the hon. and gallant Colonel would not persist in his opposition. The measure, with that of the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite, would, he hoped, be discussed on an early day.


said, he would accede to this suggestion, but he warned the Government that the subject must be fully discussed.

Bill read 2o.