HC Deb 14 July 1853 vol 129 cc234-6

Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."

SIR JOHN SHELLEY

said, he did not think that any case had been made out for an increase of salary to the Assistant Judge. He said this out of no personal feeling in regard to the gentleman who now held that position. When an increase of salary was proposed, the Government was bound to make out a strong case for it, and to show not only that there was an increase of work, but also that the office could not be properly filled at a lower rate of payment. The object of the Bill was to increase the salary of the Assistant Judge from 1,200l. to 1,500l.; but he thought the first-named sum quite sufficient, especially when it was considered that he had an assistant who was paid 7l. a day. He should therefore move that the Bill be committed that day three months.

Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "this House will, upon this day three months, resolve itself into the said Committee," instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. WALPOLE

said, the question of increasing the salary of the Assistant Judge of the Middlesex Sessions was brought under his notice when he was at the Home Office, and from all he then learnt he thought it reasonable that additional salary should be given. The business of the Middlesex Sessions had been enormously increased by the transference of a particular species of business from the Central Criminal Court to the Sessions—so much so, that the Chairman could not get the ordinary vacation that all other Judges enjoyed. In these circumstances, application was made to him to give him occasional assistance, and that assistance was directed to be given, though not permanently. In the case of the Country Court Judges, the House had decided last Session that they should have a salary of not less 1,200l., and not more than 1,500l. a year. Now, the duties which the Chairman of the Middlesex Sessions had to discharge were as great, if not greater, than those of the County Court Judges, and therefore it was reasonable that the same addition should be made to his salary. He would, therefore, support the Bill before the House. He wished to make an observation, however, with reference to the second clause. By that clause it was proposed to give a retiring salary. He was not aware that they had done that in the case of any of the Judges of the inferior courts; and, without giving a positive opinion on it, he would call the attention of the Government to the subject, as he considered that it was establishing a dangerous precedent. If they gave a retiring pension to the Chairman of the Middlesex Quarter Sessions, he did not see why they should not give the same to the Judges of all the inferior courts.

SIR GEORGE GREY

would also say a few words in explanation, as the Bill for lessening the cost of prosecutions in certain cases was brought in while he was in office. That Bill threw a large portion of the criminal business upon the Middlesex Sessions which had formerly been conducted in the Central Criminal Court. Mr. Serjeant Adams, immediately upon the Bill passing, applied for an increase of salary, on the ground that the business would be greatly increased. He (Sir G. Grey), however, considered that it would be premature to propose any greater amount of salary until it was seen to what extent this increase of business took place. From the statement of the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Walpole) it appeared clear that such an increase had occurred, and hence he could not see any ground for opposing this Bill. He was opposed, however, to the clause relative to a retiring pension.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL

said, he wished to correct an error into which his right hon. Friend (Mr. Walpole) had fallen in regard to the retiring pensions. The right hon. Gentleman had stated that no inferior Judge received retiring pensions. This was an error; several of the Judges of inferior courts were entitled to retiring allowances, and County Court Judges might have retiring pensions in certain cases.

SIR JOHN SHELLEY

said, that after the explanations given on both sides of the House, he did not feel justified in persevering with his Motion.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn; Main Question put., and agreed to.

House in Committee.

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (The Treasury may grant a retiring allowance to Assistant Judge on his resignation).

SIR JOHN SHELLEY

said, he should move that the clause be struck out of the Bill. He certainly did think the pay of this gentleman was amply sufficient, while no reason whatever had been shown why he should have a retiring allowance.

Question put. "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

The Committee divided:—Ayes 81; Noes 53: Majority 28.

Clause agreed to.

House resumed. Bill reported.