STAMP DUTIES (No. 2). (Hansard, 13 May 1850)

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
placed in the hands of the Chairman certain resolutions to be the foundation of a Bill.

§ SIR H. WILLOUGHBY
wished to I know the nature of the resolutions now proposed, and whether the right hon. Gentleman meant to hind the House to any opinion upon them? He begged to remind the right hon. Gentleman that, in the case of the Stamp Act of 1815, the discussion took place on the resolutions upon which the Bill was founded. If the resolutions upon which the recent Stamp Duties Bill was founded had been well considered, the House would have escaped the danger of; having been on the eve of passing a mea sure which, under the pretence of a boon, would, in fact, have increased taxation to some portions of the community.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, it was quite true, as his hon. Friend said, that in the measure recently submitted to the House, some persons were taxed more highly than they had been. He never said that they would not. On the contrary, he stated that in proposing to relieve the smaller proprietors, the larger proprietors would be more highly taxed; but that, upon the whole, 300,000l. would I be remitted. What he now proposed was what he stated on Friday night, namely, he proposed to take an uniform duty of one per cent on conveyances, and of one-eighth per cent upon mortgages. The only alteration that he had made was, that in 1430 stead of leaving the schedule for Ireland out of the Bill, he should leave it in, in order that he might exercise his judgment upon it.

§ MR. DISRAELI
said, that it was usual for the resolution to be printed, and as he understood some alteration had been made, that was an additional reason why it should be placed in the hands of hon. Members before they were called upon to agree to it.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, the only objection he had was that it was so much time lost. The House might reduce any thing; they probably would not increase it beyond what he proposed.

§ SIR H. WILLOUGHBY
said, there was no doubt that as the Bill was originally drawn, instead of effecting a reduction of 300,000l., it would have increased the taxation; and if they had passed the Bill as it originally stood, they would have been grossly deceived. He wished a calculation could be made wherein the loss of 300,000l. by the now scheme could be shown. He wished to have some data to go upon; he wished to know where the gain would be, and where the loss would be, and to what amount. For his own part, it was a matter of great doubt what the loss would be; and he was inclined to think there was some great error. He thought it fair to the House that some documents showing the loss and the gain should be laid before them. The Chancellor of the Exchequer could easily procure such a document from the Stamp Office.

§ MR. W. BROWN
said, that until they had some data to go upon they were quite in the dark.

§ MR. HUME
said, they ought not to go on till they had got the whole schedule. The object of the present Motion was to have the Bill printed, and the schedule would be printed.

§ MR. MULLINGS
said, it was very desirable that the House should know what they were called upon to do. He wished to know from the right hon. Gentleman if the same subject-matter was in this as in the former Bill: first, agreements; second, bargains and sales for a year; third, bonds; fourth, covenants; then leases, then mortgages, then settlements, then warrants of attorney. He thought he had enumerated almost the whole; he wished to know if these were in the new Bill.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
replied, that in the schedule, agreements were included which were not included in the former Bill. With regard 1431 to bargains and sales, they were not in the schedule, being repealed by a clause in the Bill. All the other items enumerated by the hon. Gentleman were in the schedule.

§ MR. GROGAN
inquired whether it would be competent to move reductions on any other matters besides those which were mentioned in the resolution, because he had received a strong representation from the city he had the honour to represent as to the justice of reducing one particular stamp.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
On what particular stamp?

§ MR. GROGAN
On awards in arbitration.

§ MR. GOULBURN
said, it struck him the most convenient mode would be to adopt the resolutions; they would then appear in the Votes to-morrow, and if any hon. Gentleman saw any objection to them when the report was brought up, he could move that it be recommitted.