FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL. (Hansard, 8 August 1850)

MR. J. A. SMITH
said, he thought the sum fixed by the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer was too low a sum. He thought it should be fixed at 200l.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, these societies were for the benefit of the lower class of people, and 100l. was as large a sum as a person of that class would insure his life for. To go farther, would be to confer a benefit, at the expense of the public, on a class different from those for whom the Bill was intended, and therefore he must oppose the suggestion.

§ MR. AGLIONBY
supported the proposition for 200l.

§ MR. HUME
considered that fixing it at 100l. was a great concession. The public was already much taxed for the advantage of these societies.

MR. J. A. SMITH
said, not one of 948 these societies had put the public to one shilling of expense, but they contributed to the revenue by paying stamps on their policies. The Provident Clerks' Association, with which he was connected, had paid in this way 1,700l. for stamps.

§ MR. P. SCROPE
observed, that if they did agree to 200l., it ought to be limited to those societies that were certified under the Friendly Societies Act.

MR. J. A. SMITH
said, he was willing to accede to that.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, he allowed existing insurances to remain as they were, but that the Act would apply to future assurances.

§ SIR H. WILLOUGHBY
asked whether it was intended to subject friendly societies to all the clauses and provisions of the Acts relating to savings banks? and whether Government would guarantee the continuance of the rate of interest proposed to be given under this Bill—3l. 0s. 10d. per cent.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that it was not intended to subject the moneys invested on behalf of friendly societies to the regulations of the Savings Banks Acts. With regard to the hon. Baronet's second question, he begged to state that there was a certain number of friendly societies to which, by law, an interest at the rate of 4l. 11s. was insured, and there were other societies to which an interest of 3l. 16s. was insured. In these cases the rates of interest which had been guaranteed would be continued; but it was proposed in future cases to give a reduced amount of interest. The result of the arrangements he had mentioned was a considerable annual loss to the country, the loss last year upon the interest paid to friendly societies having been 20,700l. He thought it extremely desirable that the rate fixed to he hereafter paid should be permanent, and he had therefore proposed a rate of interest a little below that which he might otherwise have been disposed to suggest. He had proposed a rate of 3l. 0s. 10d. per cent as a sum upon which the parties, so far as he could give any assurance, might permanently calculate.

§ MR. HENLEY
objected to the clause, on the ground that it was inconsistent with the second clause; and he suggested the omission of the words, "according to the rules of the said society."

§ MR. SPOONER
said, that in some societies the member had by the rules the power of having the sum paid to his widow; if these words were struck out, he would not have that which was perhaps his reason for belonging to that society.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL
thought it would be advisable to omit the words. It did not appear desirable that there should be various systems or rules prevailing; it would be better that there should be one rule, the rule of law, as to the distribution of an intestate's effects; and if a person wished his property otherwise distributed, he could make a will.

§ LORD D. STUART
apprehended that it was not the habit of the class of persons in question to make a will.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that it was never contemplated that there was to be such a nominee system as had grown up, enabling people to evade to such an extent the stamp and probate and legacy duty, and, if so minded, to cheat their creditors. He believed there was a person of high rank in this country whose life was insured for no less than 5,000l. in this way.