ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. (Hansard, 30 April 1845)

§ Sir James Graham
said, that he observed that the first Order of the Day was the second reading of the Bill introduced by the hon. and learned Member for Kinsale (Mr. Watson). He (Sir James Graham) was anxious that the hon. and learned Gentleman would not press the second reading that day, and that he would consent to defer it until after the holidays. He had stated to the hon. and learned Gentleman that a Commission had been appointed, which had under consideration many points included in that Bill. As yet the Commission had not reported; but Her Majesty's Ministers expected the Report at an early day. When they had the advantage of that Report before them, it might then become the duty of the Government to propose some measure on the subject. Under these circumstances, he felt justified in asking the 1441 hon. and learned Gentleman, not at this moment, and in the present imperfect state of information on the subject, to press the Bill. He would, therefore, request the hon. and learned Gentleman to postpone the second reading until an early period after the recess.

§ Mr. Watson
was extremely anxious to have his Bill read a third time and passed before the close of the present Session. The Bill which he now sought to carry had passed a Committee of the House of Lords last Session, and was altered on the Motion for its re-commitment in that House. He had no doubt that the matter involved in the Bill had been referred to persons with whom he was very well acquainted, and who, he knew, were perfectly competent to judge of the subject; and he must say, that if he had the assurance of the right hon. Baronet that his Bill should not receive any obstruction further than merely making it conformable to any Report which might be made by the Commission alluded to, he should not press it at that moment. Unless he had that assurance he must insist on going on upon the present occasion. All that he then wanted was, that the second reading of the Bill should take place, and that the discussion upon it should take place in its after stages. He was as anxious as any person that no impediment should be offered to the full consideration which he was sure those excellent persons who had been placed upon the Commission would give to the subjects before them. But, unless the assurance to which he had already alluded were given him, he wished to be allowed to take one step with the Bill, and would then wait until the Government were in possession of the Report for which they were looking.

§ Sir James Graham
said, that nothing was farther from the wish of the Government than to obstruct the progress of the Bill, or prevent the fair discussion of it. To show that the very contrary was their desire, the first instruction given to the Commission was to give attention to this very subject. The Bill of the hon. and learned Gentleman was confined to England. The operations of the Government Commission were of a much wider extent. The instructions given to the Commission were to inquire not only into the penal laws affecting Catholics and Dissenters in England, but also in Scotland and Ireland; and questions had been already referred 1442 to the Lord Advocate, and he believed to the Irish Attorney General. The hon. and learned Gentleman, therefore, would not think it unreasonable, that before they affirmed the principle of the Bill, even though it should have passed through a Committee of the other House, and although it had come to them recommended by the learning and experience of the hon. and learned Gentleman, that when an inquiry was pending before a Commission composed of such Gentlemen of the profession as they could all have confidence in, Her Majesty's Government should wish to have the advantage of seeing the Report of the Commission before they proceeded any further with this Bill. He had every reason to believe that the Government would be in possession of the Report spoken of at an early period after the recess. If they were disappointed in that hope, he would not then be in a condition to ask of the hon. and learned Gentleman the further postponement of his Bill; but he was sure that at the present moment the hon. and learned Gentleman would acknowledge, on reflection, that the request which he (Sir J. Graham) made was not an unfair one.

§ Mr. Watson
, after the observations of the right hon. Baronet, would not press the second reading of the Bill on the present occasion. He hoped that it was distinctly understood that he would avail himself of the first opportunity afforded him, after the recess, to move the second reading of the Bill, unless an equivalent measure were brought forward by the Government. But he saw so much inconvenience arising from the large nature of the inquiry by the Commission, who are to inquire into the penal laws which affected all classes of religionists throughout the country, that he could not help believing that the Government would find great difficulties lying in its way. The principle which he wanted to establish was that all penal laws, affecting persons as regarded their religion, should be blotted out of the Statute book, to which they had so long been a disgrace.