§ Sir James Grahammoved the Second Reading this Bill.
§ Mr. Wakleyhaving presented a petition, signed by upwards of 200 of the students of the London University, generally approving of the measure, but objecting to certain portions of it, the hon. Gentleman went on to observe that it was understood that the discussion upon the measure should be taken at an after stage, and therefore it was not his intention to go into the question now. He wished, however, to call the attention of the right hon. Baronet to that passage in the petition which he had just presented, which prayed that the Bill might not be made retrospective in its effects, but that students registered as such at the present time should be allowed to qualify under the present existing rules. He hoped that Government would take the case of the petitioners under its favourable consideration. He wished also to put a question to the right hon. Gentleman, which, if it should prove inconvenient to answer at once, his having put it would, he hoped, be considered as a notice that he should ask it again on Monday. It had been stated in print that the right hon. Gentleman had declared that he considered it impossible that the general practitioners should be enfranchised in the College of Surgeons in London. He understood that the right hon. Gentleman had stated the door to be absolutely closed in that institution to any arrangement between the Council and the Members of the College—by whom he meant the general practitioners of England and Wales. He wished to know whether these statements had really been made as reported.
§ Sir James Grahamwas much obliged to the hon. Gentleman for not insisting on the right he possessed of opposing the second reading of the Bill. He thought, on the whole, that the course which he had taken would be found to be the most convenient. He proposed to read the Bill a second time this evening, and to fix the Committee for the last day before the Whitsuntide holidays — Wednesday, the 7th of next month. He allowed this long interval to elapse, with the view of being enabled to complete certain arrangements which he hoped would enable him to in- 1357 troduce the Bill after the Whitsuntide holidays in a shape which would prove generally satisfactory. He would next advert to the matter alluded to, as being contained in the petition just presented. He was quite aware that, in a measure of this kind, materially affecting the interests of parties taken, as it were, by surprise, the most indulgent consideration should be shown towards them. But, at the same time, he must tell the hon. Gentleman that there were important interests at stake which it was impossible to disregard. With reference to the time at which students now registered could, under the proposed system, pass, there was a length of time particularly prescribed by the Bill. On that point, however, he was not indisposed to make any reasonable allowance for the circumstances in which individuals might be placed. As to the standard of qualification, however, he felt less disposed to make any concession. Under the present system the petitioners would be entitled to become general practitioners in the United Kingdom, provided the test of qualification were sustained. It was most essential for the general welfare of the community that these practitioners should be duly qualified, and the test of qualification was examination. Having said so much, the hon. Gentleman would feel that it became his duty to reserve to himself full power of considering the matter with reference to the interests of the community, in connexion always with those of individuals. As to the last question, whether he considered the door of negotiation closed between the Council of the College of Surgeons and the body of general practitioners, the hon. Gentleman who had asked it, and all other hon. Members who had paid any attention to the subject, had had opportunities of seeing the correspondence which had passed upon the matter. Previous to that correspondence, he (Sir J. Graham) had thought that some adjustment was possible. Since, however, it had taken place, he could only say, while he would not go so far as to state that the door was absolutely closed—that his fears against, greatly exceeded his hopes in favour of, any adjustment being at all possible. He trusted, however, before the Bill went into Committee, that he should be able to make arrangements which would be generally satisfactory to the body of practitioners.
§ Bill read a second time.
§ On the Question that it be committed,
§ Mr. Wakleyobserved, that the students 1358 signing the petition which he had presented, had no objection to the strictest examination. They were prepared to submit to any test; but what they prayed was, that the Legislature would not prevent them from being examined at the time they hoped that they should be in conformity with the regulation of the medical schools in which they were entered. He begged to ask the right hon. Baronet whether he had any objection to his moving for a Return of the Answer which the Council of the College of Surgeons had addressed to the general Association of Medical Practitioners.
§ Sir James Grahamhad no objection, as a Member of the Government, to the hon. Member's moving for the Return alluded to; but as a Member of Parliament he did entertain objections to a document being moved for, the production of which the House had no power to compel.
§ Mr. Warburtonremembered a remarkable observation of the right hon. the First Lord of the Treasury, which bore on this point. It was this—that where powers were given to a public body for the discharge of public functions, it was amenable to Parliament for the manner in which it performed them. This correspondence came strictly under that character.
§ The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that if all public bodies were liable to be called on for the production of their correspondence, people must be careful as to the private letters addressed to them.
§ Sir R. Inglisthought the House should not interfere, except in a case of the greatest emergency.
§ Sir James Grahamsaid, that if the hon. Member would have the goodness to repeat his Motion on some future day, he had no doubt he could lay the correspondence on the Table by command.
§ Mr. Wakleygave notice that he should do so on Monday.
§ Bill to be committed.
§ House adjourned at nine o'clock.