§ On the question, that the Speaker leave the Chair,
§ Mr. Hume
regretted, that the House were about by this bill to transfer to an irresponsible power the right of taxing the whole community. Previously to carrying into operation such a measure as this, they ought to have constituted boards of rate payers, to be elected by, and to be responsible to the rate-papers, for the conduct of this business. He objected to proceeding with so important a bill at this period of the Session. It was a bill which required a full attendance, and ought to have had even a call of the House. He submitted, too, that in the principle of it, they were at fault, and he thought the noble Lord ought to consider well how he went about to violate the great principle that the people should only be taxed by their representative. For the purpose of postponing the measure to another Session, he moved, that the further consideration of it be taken that day three months.
§ Mr. T. Attwood
cordially seconded the motion. His objection was to the principle of centralization adopted in this measure. He did not wish to see the police appointed by the county magistrates.
§ Lord J Russell
could not conceive how the objections of hon. Gentleman applied to this bill. Some hon. Members declared that if a board were appointed by the rate-payers, and responsible to them, they should not object to the bill placing the control of the police in such body, and the hon. Member for Birmingham (Mr. Attwood) objected to placing the appointment of them in the hands of the county magistrates, and complained of the centralising character of the bill. But it was clear that whether they placed the appointment in a board elected by the rate-payers, or in the county magistrates, 7 the centralization was precisely the same, for centralization had, in fact, nothing to do with it at all, because in either case a local body was taken. Centralization was misapplied to the present bill which vested the power of appointment in the hands of the county magistrates. He did not himself object to the general principle that there should be county boards appointed by the rate-payers. The bill would only give to a body which was now in existence the power of appointing special constables. He hoped, therefore, the House would allow it to pass; he should be very sorry to allow the Session to pass over without the measure becoming law.
§ Mr. Warburton
suggested, that the noble Lord should make this bill—which was only passed without debate at present on account of the emergencies of the country—only a bill of two years' duration.
§ Lord J. Russell
said, that if they limited the duration of the bill to two years, the magistrates could only make engagements for two years, and if they could only make your engagements for two years, the most valuable men would not take employment under them.
Sir E. Wilmot
objected to that part of the bill which related to the appointment of one chief constable in each county, and in the committee he would make a proposal to get rid of that difficulty.
§ The House divided on the original question;—Ayes 85; Noes 14: Majority 71.
|List of the Ayes.|
|Barnard, E G.||Estcourt, T.|
|Barry, G. S.||Ewart, W.|
|Bernal, R.||Gaskell, J. M.|
|Blackburne, I.||Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.|
|Blake, W. J.||Grey, rt. hon. Sir C.|
|Boiling, W.||Grimsditch, T.|
|Bramston, T. W.||Hamilton, C. J. B.|
|Bridgeman, H.||Harvey, D. W.|
|Broadley, H.||Hill, Lord A. M. C.|
|Brownrigg, S.||Hinde, J. H.|
|Bruges, W. H. L.||Hobhouse,rt. hn. Sir J.|
|Bryan, G.||Hobhouse, T. B.|
|Buller, C.||Hodgson, R.|
|Burroughes, H. N.||Hope, hon. C.|
|Campbell, Sir J.||Hope, G.W.|
|Chute, W. L. W.||Hoskins, K.|
|Clay, W.||Howard, P. H.|
|Crawford, W.||Howick, Lord|
|Darby, G.||Kemble, H.|
|Darlington, Earl of||Labouchere, rt. hn. H.|
|Divett, E.||Lascelles, hon. W. S.|
|Donkin, Sir R. S.||Loch, J.|
|Douglas, Sir C. E,||Lowther, J. H.|
|Lushington, C.||Smith, R. V.|
|Lushington, rt. hn. S.||Somerset, Lord G.|
|Maule, hon. F.||Stanley, hon. W, O.|
|Morpeth, Lord||Stock, Dr.|
|O'Connell, M. J.||Surrey, Earl of|
|Oswald, J.||Thomson, rt. hn. C. P.|
|Palmer, G.||Thornely, T.|
|Parker, J.||Troubridge, Sir E. T.|
|Parker, R. T.||Vllliers, hon. C. P.|
|Parnell, rt. hn. Sir H.||Warburton, H.|
|Philips, M.||Wilbraham, G.|
|Praed, W. T.||Wilmot, Sir J. E.|
|Price, Sir R.||Wood, C|
|Rich, H.||Wood, G. W.|
|Rolfe, Sir R. M.||Wood, Colonel T.|
|Round, J.||Wrightson, W. B.|
|Russell, Lord J.||Yates, J. A.|
|Rutherfurd, rt. hn. A.||TELLERS.|
|Seymour, Lord||Stanley, hon. E. J.|
|Sheil, R. L.||Baring, F. T.|
|List of the NOES.|
|Brotherton, J.||Redington, T. N.|
|Callaghan, D.||Scholefield, J.|
|Duncombe, T.||Vigors, N. A.|
|Finch, F.||Wakley, T.|
|Grote, G.||Williams, W.|
|Hector, C. J|
|O'Connell, J.||Hume, J.|
|Pechell, Captain||Attwood, T.|
§ Bill went through the Committee.
§ House resumed.—Bill reported.