HC Deb 15 November 1837 vol 39 cc3-12

A considerable number of Members attended at the House before two o'clock. At half past two, the attendance of the Commons in the House of Lords, to hear the royal Commission read for the opening of Parliament, was commanded.

Mr. Ley

the clerk of the House, accompanied by a considerable number of Members, immediately proceeded to the House of Lords, and after hearing the Commission read, returned to the House. Mr. Ley the chief clerk, took his seat at the head of the table.

Mr. Shaw Lefevre

rose and said: In obedience to her Majesty's commands, they were now assembled for the discharge of one of the most important duties that devolved on the Representatives of the people; and if at any former period the election of Speaker had been considered a question involving great and serious responsibility, on which not only the character of the House, but the success of its deliberations, must, in a great measure, depend, the present was not an occasion when that responsibility Was in the least degree diminished, or when the exercise of that important function of the House of Commons created less interest in the minds of the people. If they valued the ancient privileges of that House, which had always and justly been considered among the best securities of the liberties of the people, they could not be indifferent to the choice of that individual who must be the organ, by whom those privileges were to be vindicated and maintained; and the more those privileges were threatened with encroachment, the more it became their duty to confide them to the guardianship of one on whose ability, firmness, and discretion, they could place the most implicit reliance. But with regard to the more immediate and practical duties of the Speaker, he could not conceal from himself that in the present situation of public affairs his position must be one of peculiar difficulty. Looking to the measures which were likely to come under consideration, looking to the relative strength of parties, and the unfortunately excited state of political and party feeling, aggravated undoubtedly by the recent election contests, he believed that at no former period was it more necessary that the person whom they selected to preside over their deliberations should be an individual of sound judgment, of equable temper—who should know how to interfere at the proper time and in the proper manner, to prevent those irrelevant discussions, and check those intemperate expressions that in the moment of warmth occasionally might arise, and always more or less impeded that real freedom of debate which alone rendered their deliberations either useful or profitable to the country. But there were other considerations which ought to influence their choice under existing circumstances. It would be recollected that during the last Session the attention of Parliament was directed to the inconvenience arising from the delays and interruptions constantly interposed during the progress of the public business, and the still less satisfactory state of what technically was termed the private business of the House. The subject was referred to a Select Committee, which recommended the adoption of certain rules with regard to the public business, but were unable to proceed to the full extent of their inquiry in consequence of the abrupt termination of the Session. He, for one, earnestly hoped that inquiry would be resumed at the earliest possible moment in the present Session, because it was his firm belief, that the character of the House had suffered much in public estimation in consequence of the mode in which the private business was transacted. Within the last few years private Bills had increased to a very great extent, and they presented a most satisfactory index of the increasing wealth and enterprise of the community. But when they considered the immense magnitude of these interests which were affected by their decisions on those Bills, and on their numerous and complicated provisions, and when they bore in mind that the prevailing opinion out of doors was, that those decisions were not founded on strict and impartial justice, they would ill discharge their duties to the country, if they hesitated for one moment to rescue the House of Commons from so serious an imputation, or delayed to subject to the strictest and most patient inquiry a system which had occasioned such frequent and, he feared, just animadversions. But, whatever course it might be thought expedient to pursue, whether the House would agree to the suggestions contained in the Report of the Committee to which he had alluded, or whether it should be found necessary to make other regulations for the improved transaction both of public and private business, it was obvious that any change of that description would impose new duties on the Speaker, in the exercise of which, extensive acquaintance with the usages of Parliament, much caution, and unceasing vigilance would be required. He might allude also to an experiment which was tried in the early part of last Session, and which he regarded as the first step towards reform in this Branch of Legislation—he meant the appointment of a Select Committee on Private Bills, which he believed gave general satisfaction; but as chairman of that Committee he was bound to state, that during the progress of its labours a great number of difficulties occurred which rendered it necessary to apply for the advice and assistance of the highest authority in the House; and it was to the courtesy, kindness, promptitude, and ability, with which that advice and assistance had always been afforded, that the success of that experience was mainly to be attributed. He was so deeply impressed with the arduous nature of the duties inseparable from the office of Speaker, that on the present occasion were he about to move the election of an individual yet untried, he should have wished that such a proposition had been made by some Member of greater talents and experience than himself, and who had stronger claims on the attention of the House than he could presume to boast of, and whose recommendation would come with proportionably greater weight. But when it became his duty to propose that the same right hon. and learned Gentleman who so ably presided over the deliberations of the last Parliament should again take the chair, he felt convinced that the House would not need any apology from him. The high character, the acknowledged talent, and peculiar aptitude for that laborious and distinguished office, which had been so eminently displayed by his right hon. and learned Friend, were amply sufficient to acquit him of any presumption in bringing the name of Mr. Abercromby before them on the present occasion. He was restrained by the presence of his right hon. and learned Friend from speaking in terms more in unison with his own feelings, of his high character, and the value of his public services. He would rather appeal to those Members of the last Parliament, and who could not forget the dignity, urbanity, and above all, the perfect impartiality which had distinguished every act of his official life—he would appeal to them, whether the conduct of the right hon. and learned Gentleman, as the protector of their privileges, as the moderator of their debates, and the watchful guardian of those rules and orders by which their proceedings were regulated, had not been such as to secure for him the respect and approbation for all parties in the House. He was satisfied he was not giving way to any feeling of mere personal regard, when he confidently predicted, that in the various qualities essential for the office of Speaker, and in the faithful and conscientious discharge of its important duties, his right hon. and learned Friend would not fall short of any of that long line of distinguished persons whom that House of Commons had successively placed in the chair. Upon these considerations, he had peculiar pleasure in moving, that the right hon. James Abercromby do take the chair.

Mr. Strutt

said, that in rising to second the motion made by his hon. Friend, the Member for Hampshire, he was well aware that any Member who ventured to second the nomination of another to fill the high and important office of Speaker, took upon himself a serious responsibility. Any person acquainted with the history of this country, or who had paid any attention to the course of events in France during the last half century, could have no doubt that the most important results might arise from the rules which regulated the proceedings of an assembly like the present, and from the manner in which those rules were enforced by the chair. If, there fore, he felt no doubt or hesitation in rising to second the motion then before the House, it was not because he was disposed to undervalue either the importance or the responsibility of the office of their Speaker, but because he felt convinced, that they could not. find in the House any Member qualified to perform its arduous duties with more honour to himself, and with more advantage to the country, than his right hon. Friend, the Member for Edinburgh. During the last three years, the House had had experience of the manner in which those duties had been performed by his right hon. Friend, and any person who had watched the course which his right hon. Friend had pursued during that period, must have observed that the qualities of his mind admirably fitted him for the adequate discharge of those duties. His high integrity—his inflexible impartiality—his devoted attention to the business of the House—his easiness of access and affability to all persons who wished to consult him on the course of their proceedings— his strong good sense and discrimination, joined to his knowledge of the law, and the practice which regulated those proceedings—his proved determination to support the just rights and privileges of that House—these were all qualities for which his right hon. Friend, the Member for Edinburgh, was eminent, and he therefore thought that the House was most fortunate in having them all combined to such a degree in the person of one individual. He had no occasion to remind the House that the period when his right hon. Friend first entered upon his duties was one of peculiar difficulty, a time of great political excitement, and his right hon. Friend was elected only by a narrow majority, yet he was not speaking the language of mere compliment, but of strict truth, when he said, that his right hon. Friend's conduct in the chair had been such as to secure for him not only the confidence and respect of those Members who then supported him, but also to gain for him the support of the great majority of the Members who had opposed his election. There was only one other topic on which he should speak, and on that he should only say a few words, as his hon. Friend who preceded him, and who was much better qualified to speak upon it than he was, had mentioned it in his speech—he alluded to the improvements which the late Speaker had introduced into the mode of transacting the private business of the House. It was universally admitted, both within doors and without, that there were great objections to that part of the present system of the proceedings of the House. It would have been perfectly competent for the late Speaker to have allowed matters to go on in their ordinary routine, without any interference on his part—still more, without any attempt to improve that routine himself, and without giving any encouragement to the schemes of improvement suggested by others. By such a course he would have avoided much personal labour and responsibility. But his right hon. Friend had pursued a different course, a course far more honourable to himself, and far more advantageous to the country. His right hon. Friend had already effected great improvement in the mode of conducting the business of the House, and if the House should again place his right hon. Friend in the chair, he was certain that his right hon. Friend would proceed still further in the same career of wise and progressive reform which had already given so much satisfaction to the House, and had conduced so much to the advantage of the public. He would not trespass further on the attention of the House, but would conclude by seconding the motion of his hon. Friend, being fully convinced that the success of that motion would conduce to the order and dignity of the House, to the advancement of public business, and to the maintenance of its just rights and privileges.

Sir Robert Peel

rose for the mere purpose of stating, that he did not feel called upon to give any opposition to the proposal which had been just made and seconded by the hon. Members opposite. He conceived that it would be very difficult to lay down any rule with respect to the principle which ought to influence a Member opposed to the Government, or a party opposed to the Government, either in acquiescence in, or in opposition to, a proposal of this nature. It would be very difficult, he repeated, to lay down any rule, either of universal, or of general application, to such a case. Much must depend upon the circumstances of the time, much on the weight of competing claims, much on considerations of a personal, a temporary, and even a special nature. Considering, then, the special circumstances of the House at present—considering, that in the event of a contest, a majority—a small majority, but still a majority—would decide in favour of the re-election of the right hon. Member for Edinburgh to the chair—coupling also with that consideration, the personal respect which he had felt for that right hon. Gentleman, even when he was a candidate for the chair against his noble Friend, Lord Canterbury, and which he still continued to feel for him, he was led to acquiesce in the present proposition, and in that acquiescence the party with which he acted fully concurred. The special attention of the House had been called to one consideration, to which all persons appeared to attribute great importance—he meant the necessity of perfecting some plan for conducting the private business of the House which would give greater satisfaction than the present to the public; and if it were true, as he had no doubt it was, that the right hon. Gentleman had paid special attention to the perfecting such a plan—if, as he had himself witnessed, the right hon. Gentleman were accessible to all who consulted him on the best mode of proceeding with the business of the House, public as well as private—if the right hon. Gentleman had for some time past directed his meditations to a plan which would insure, not only more regular attention to private business, but also the greater confidence of the country in the decisions of the House on matters relating to the private and pecuniary interests of many members of the community, that circumstance alone would render him unwilling to part with the services of an individual who had so peculiarly devoted himself to so difficult an inquiry. He abstained, he purposely abstained, from all reference to the circumstances of the contest for the Speakership which took place at the commencement of the Session of 1835. Considering the present circumstances of the House, and combining that consideration with the other considerations to which he had already referred, he had no hesitation in declaring that he willingly assented to the proposition of the hon. Member for Hampshire: and he then expressed on his own part, and on the part of those with whom he was in the habit of acting, an opinion that the reappointment of the right hon. Gentleman to the chair would conduce to the credit and character of the House, and would increase the confidence of the country in its decisions.

Mr. Abercromby

was conscious that he owed the recommendations of the two hon. Friends who had proposed him as a fit person to fill the chair of that House to their kindness, rather than to any services which he had rendered the House during the three Sessions in which he had had the honour to preside over its deliberations. If he reverted at all to the peculiar circumstances in which he had the honour of being originally placed in the Chair, it would only be for the purpose of willingly and gratefully acknowledging the prompt and cordial support which, with scarcely one exception, he had received from all parties after he had taken his seat. By that prompt and cordial support he had been sustained under the pressure of the many embarrassments which were almost inseparable from the situation in which he was placed. In reply to the observations which had been made by his two hon. Friends on one particular subject, to which the right hon. Member for Tamworth had also referred, he had only to remark, that he was happy that those observations had been made, as they relieved him from the necessity of saying more than a few words upon it. He certainly concurred with his hon. Friends in thinking, that under the circumstances in which the House was then placed, a more important and serious duty could not devolve upon it than that of placing its character in a fair and becoming light before the public, by endeavouring to secure to that portion of the people whose private rights and pecuniary interests were submitted to its consideration a just and impartial decision. It was with reference to the state of the business of that House, both public and private, which all parties in the House declared to be anything but satisfactory, that an investigation was instituted at the close of the last Session of Parliament. As those inquiries were not then brought to a termination, he concluded that the House would proceed to revive the Committee, but as they involved questions to which the attention of the Speaker ought to be and must be assiduously devoted, it must be obvious that in the event of any alterations being suggested in the old practice, by the establishment of new rules, or in the event of a new and different practice being introduced under the old rules, the success of such efforts must be influenced by the existence of a proper understanding between the Speaker and the House, and by the existence of a firm reliance on the steady support of the House on the part of the Speaker. In conclusion, he sincerely assured the House, while he prized the possession of its good opinion and its confidence as of the highest value, there was nothing which he should more deprecate and dread than to be placed in the chair with any feeling of distrust on his mind that he could not rely upon the steady support of the whole House. Having stated this to be his own feeling, he cheerfully submitted to the decision of the House.

Mr. S. Lefevre and Mr. Strutt

conducted Mr. Abercromby to the chair, amidst cheers from both sides of the House.

The Speaker

—"Gentlemen, to be placed in this chair, under any circumstances, must be deemed by any commoner a high and distinguished honour—to be replaced in it, after filling it for three years, and that, too, by an unanimous vote of the House, is an honour which I shall ever cherish and esteem as the proudest of my life. The only expression of gratitude which I have to make to you is this:—that I resume my place in this chair most firmly and zealously desirous to do all in my power to merit the future confidence of the House."

Lord John Russell,

in moving that the House do now adjourn, begged to congratulate the Speaker on being again elected, and that by an unanimous vote of the House, to fill his high office. There might be some persons, who, considering only the number of precedents by which the proceedings of that House were formed, and the rules and regulations which in the course of centuries had been framed for the government of its proceedings, conceived the duty of the Speaker to be not attended with much difficulty. But such persons, did not, in his opinion, take a just and fitting view of the Speaker's duties. The varying state of parties, the new aspect of political questions, the animating subjects of the discussions interposed difficulties which it was impossible for any foresight to provide for; but, beyond all this, the subject to which his hon. Friend, the Member for Hampshire, had alluded—namely, the state of the private business before the House, the increased number of transactions which in this great and opulent commercial country, were brought under the consideration of Parliament and the complaints which were made from time to time of the manner in which that business was transacted, all called upon the Speaker to exercise great discretion, and to give the House the benefit of his experience, and to assist its deliberations by his advice in all questions of difficulty which required investigation and judgment. I feel confident, Sir, continued the noble Lord, addressing the Speaker, that your re-election and that, too, as I confidently anticipated, without opposition, will tend very much to the settlement of all those questions, and to an improvement in the manner of conducting that portion of the business of the House; and if you are enabled thus to serve the public, you may congratulate yourself, that whilst this House has conferred on you the high honour of presiding over its deliberations, you, by bringing to perfection those regulations to which I have referred, will have an opportunity of making this House more useful and more endeared to the country at large, and that you will thus return to this House, in increased character and augmented estimation, the honour which it has this day conferred upon you, and upon which I, with the utmost sincerity and cordiality, once more beg leave to offer you my congratulations. I move that this House do now adjourn.—House adjourned.