FACTORIES' REGULATION BILL. (Hansard, 7 March 1832)

Mr. Greene
presented a Petition from 420 operatives, at Manchester, praying, in behalf of themselves and their children, that this Bill might not pass into a law. The petitioners stated, that their children were not injuriously affected by their employment, and they declared their impression, that, if the Bill was passed, it would tend to deprive many persons of employment, who would be compelled to resort to their parishes for support.

§ Mr. Briscoe
said, that some hon. Members had objected to the Legislature interfering between masters and their labourers; he was quite of that opinion, so far as adults were concerned; but it was a different case with regard to children of such tender ages as were often employed in factories, and, upon the acknowledged principle that they were unable to protect themselves, it was incumbent upon the Legislature to step forward in their behalf.

Mr. James
had reason to believe, that both masters and operatives were hostile to the Bill, although all must and did agree in the abstract principles of it, so far as humanity was concerned. To prevent the overworking of children in a pestilential atmosphere was most certainly very desirable; yet the Bill must be looked to in its practical results, and it might so happen that those who would prevent the excessive labour of children might compel them to starve. They might commit greater cruelties than they attributed to the manufacturers, by preventing these children from obtaining any employment at all. The scale of wages working people obtained at present, including the earnings of their children, were barely sufficient to supply the family with food. If the value of the children's labour, therefore, was abstracted, starvation must be the consequence. It was a great matter of difficulty to legislate upon such premises, and to make laws that remained a dead letter upon the Statute-book was absurd. A clause had been introduced into a bill brought in by the hon. member for Westminster two years since, by which it was enacted, that children should not be employed in mills at night; but that, was completely evaded by the parents giving forged certificates of their 1223 ages. By the Bill now before the House, one-sixth of the profits of the masters would be taken off, and, therefore, to that extent it favoured the foreign spinner. These considerations required that very great caution should be used in passing the Bill.

Mr. Hume
wished to take that opportunity to declare, that he was no enemy to the Bill; he made that declaration, because he understood an erroneous impression had gone abroad, that he was opposed to its principle. He only wished for a full inquiry, and, therefore, he had voted, that the Bill should be referred to a Select Committee, that the subject might be understood in all its bearings. He was most anxious that the children should be protected; but he did not wish to trammel the master with unnecessary restraints, and he knew no way the different bearings of the Bill could be sifted, and the proper consequences assigned to it, but by inquiry before a Select Committee.

§ Mr. Mackenzie
said, he had several petitions to present, which took a different view of the question from that which the hon. Member had just laid before the House. These petitions emanated from persons who employed a great number of operatives. They were cotton-spinners and manufacturers of Glasgow, and flax-spinners and manufacturers of Kirkaldy. The petitioners stated, that they viewed the progress of the Bill with great alarm; its professed object was, to protect children in factories from being overworked; but there was no necessity for such a measure in this case, inasmuch as no child was employed by them under fourteen years of age; that those who were employed had but little labour to perform, their chief employment was to attend the machinery, and great attention was paid to their bodily and mental improvement. The petition further noticed, the low rate of wages in factories and mills worked by the power-loom, and stated, that, if the Bill passed, a reduction of wages must follow, in proportion to the diminished hours of labour, and that such reduction would amount to thirty-live per cent on the present scale. The petitioners further referred to the diminished capital that must be employed, provided the hours of labour were limited, and the various evils that would be produced by such a result; another view of the case was also taken by the flax-spinners, whose petition he held in his hand. They stated, that a 1224 Bill had passed last Session, to limit the hours of labour to twelve, and the present measure reduced them to ten. The petitioners declared, they saw no reason for the alteration, and he agreed with them; he had yet to learn what had happened to children within a-year, to make them not so competent to perform a given quantity of labour now as they were then.

§ Mr. Dixon
felt much regret, as he knew the petitioners, that they endeavoured to uphold the present system. He thought it was the greatest compliment the parties could have paid him, that they had not intrusted the petitions to his care.

§ Mr. Robert Ferguson
said, he had been earnestly requested to support the petition from the spinning factories of the Kircaldy district. He, therefore, entreated those Gentlemen who were interested in this important measure, to attend to the statements in that petition, as tending to point out the means of legislating with the least possible injury to the operative and employer. He might, likewise, state, that he possessed documents which proved that there was much exaggeration in many of the petitions which had been presented to the House.

Mr. Cutlar Fergusson
felt ashamed to hear the present cruel system upheld. No Committee was wanted to find out what was due to humanity. Was it possible, without ruining the health of these helpless infants, to confine them to labour for twelve consecutive hours? He must say, that the statement of these petitioners condemned them, in his opinion, when they asserted that such a number of hours was not too much for working children.

§ Mr. Hunt
observed, that some of these petitioners stated, that the children employed in the factories at Glasgow were well fed, clothed, and lodged. If such was the fact, he was glad of it; but he knew that it was impossible for any human beings to be in a worse state than the children were in Lancashire. The petitioners further stated, that the occupation of these poor children was not unwholesome. The case was very different in Lancashire, where they were obliged to work in an impure atmosphere, heated from eighty to ninety degrees, and were kept in a state of perpetual perspiration and exhaustion. In short, they were treated worse than dogs; for, that if any gentleman were to find his servant treating his pigs or his dogs as these miserable children were treated, he would punish him most severely.

§ Mr. Sadler
said, after the allusions made to him, he should be allowed, he trusted, to offer a few remarks. With reference to the petitions from Glasgow, it would have been well had more caution been adopted with regard to the allegations made therein, as he had a petition of a direct contrary nature from the operative cotton-spinners and other persons employed in the factories at that place, signed by 1,500, a number which would have been greatly increased if more time had been allowed. These petitioners stated, that comparatively few of those who were employed in factories lived to the age of forty-five years—that the long confinement impeded the natural growth of children, and prevented their receiving any education—that this had a most pernicious moral effect, and that the increase of crime was enormous. These facts showed, that, whether the demand for manufactures was great or small, the situation of the people was most lamentable, and that they were in the greatest possible distress. He did not mean to deny the assertion, that many of the masters who petitioned also possessed great wealth, and were highly respectable individuals; but he thought they ought to have some regard for the poor individuals through whom they accumulated their wealth. The persons for whose benefit the Bill was intended were entitled, from their extreme poverty and helplessness, to the protection of Parliament. The Legislature was bound, on every principle of humanity, to pass some law on the subject.

§ Mr. Strickland
had received many communications on the subject, and he begged to give his cordial support to the object proposed by the hon. Member, for he was convinced it would be necessary to pass some measure for the relief of the persons employed in factories. He was happy to be able to state, that a large portion of the mill-owners were in favour of diminishing the hours of labour. Most of them, however, thought the Bill went too far, and would lead to an improper interference in the management of factories. It was on all hands admitted, that some relief should be afforded to the children, and he should be happy to co-operate in attaining so desirable an object.