§ Mr. Leaderon presenting Petitions from the Landholders of the Union of Clonmethan, County of Dublin; of Inhabitants and Landowners of Rathelaren, in the County of Cork; of Parishioners of St. Patrick's, in the City of Kilkenny; and of Tithe-payers of Kells, of Danesforth, and of Burnchurch, County of Kilkenny; of Landholders of Knock-mark and Culmullin, in the County of Meath, and of parishioners of Woollen Grange, in the County of Kilkenny; said, that the facts contained in these petitions, particularly the latter, deserved the serious attention of the House. When the right hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, moved for the appointment of the Com- 411 mittee on Tithes, he was pleased to read a Letter from the Rev. Doctor Butler, the incumbent of the union of which this parish constituted a part, and to enlarge on the severity and hardship of his case, and the distress to which this reverend gentleman was reduced by the illegal combination of what that right hon. Gentleman termed, his unreasonable and persecuting parishioners. In reply to the statement of Doctor Butler, he begged to inform the House, that this distressed divine had been for several years the incumbent of fourteen considerable parishes, extending over thirty miles of country, lying between the cities of Kilkenny and Waterford. To prevent any suspicion that this statement was exaggerated, he had referred to the Ecclesiastical Returns, which fully bore him out in declaring, that the union of Burnchurch, of which Doctor Butler was incumbent, consisted of fourteen parishes; they were Burn-church, Dumfert, Kilfeara, Plebestown, West Jerpoint, Ballylinch, Grangeleggan, Dunbella, Kilbree Grange, Blacknow, Molgrange, Blackrath, Rathbin, Woollen Grange. In all, fourteen parishes, in which there was but one Church and few Protestants. In Woollen Grange, the whole population were Roman Catholics, although the reverend incumbent had received from this one parish nearly 10,000l. during his incumbency. In it there were no ecclesiastical duties to be performed; and although in severe seasons, the landlord had lost his rent, and the tenant his labour and capital, the tithes had been invariably and uniformly collected with little diminution. The petitioners stated the amount of tithes chargeable on the parish of Woollen Grange, compared with that chargeable on the ten adjoining parishes, held under other incumbents; and it appeared by that, that Woollen Grange had paid at the rate of 5s. 6d. per acre; whilst in the ten adjoining parishes, the average on the whole did not exceed 2s. 4d. per acre. Tallow paid 2s. 6d.; Kells 2s. 5d; Dunamagin 1s. 11d.; Killemerry 1s.; Grove 2s. 1d.; Coolagh 2s. 3d.; Tullemain 2s. 11d.; Callan and Liberties 3s. 9d.; Thomastown 2s. 3d.; Ennisnagg 2s. 6d.; the average of which was 2s. 4d. and a fraction. The petitioners further stated, that, before the late unfortunate disturbances they applied to the reverend Dr. Butler to reduce the tithes in fair proportion with those ten adjoin- 412 ing parishes, and they proposed to pay him 225l. for this one parish, which would amount to 3s. 8d. per acre for all the land within it, whether titheable or not, which he peremptorily refused, and threatened the parishioners "to raise the tithe a pound a-year upon every man in Woollen Grange. An application was then made by the incumbent to the Irish government for aid to enforce the payment, although the composition offered, would have given him an income of 3,000l. a-year. The petitioners stated, that during the war the tithes of Woollen Grange were raised higher than the price of agricultural produce warranted; and that, at the termination of the war, they repeatedly called upon the incumbent to reduce the acreable charge in proportion to the prices, but could not procure more than a very inconsiderable abatement in wheat disproportionate to its present value. The petitioners further stated, that in consequence of the high rates, they were unable to pay, and they ran into arrear; and when they offered to compound these arrears by paying 13s. 4d. in the pound, the incumbent peremptorily refused to take that sum. These were the circumstances connected with the parish of Woollen Grange, and the prayers of the other petitions which he held in his hand, contained similar averments. The whole prayed that some other provision might be assigned for the support of the Established Church than the present tithe system. The petitioners complained that they felt this charge a grievous hardship, particularly in such parishes where there was neither Church, school-house, nor other charitable institution supported by a Protestant incumbent, and where they had their own clergy to support which the exactions demanded of them on account of tithes rendered them incapable of doing with the moderate degree of comfort which then-station in life and useful offices of the Catholic clergy entitled them to expect. He entreated the House to recollect that there were no manufacturers in Ireland, and that land and its produce formed the sole support for the population of that country. This formed a strong argument that all burthens which pressed upon it should be reduced as much as possible.
Mr. Blackneysupported the prayer of the petitions, and said that Dr. Butler besides his fourteen parishes, had a very large glebe, and an accumulation for thirty-five 413 years, although he was now represented as one of those poor-starving clergymen, for whose support a grant was to be made and a land-tax levied. In one instance, a poor man who had to pay tithes to Dr. Butler, amounting to 5l., and whose family were nine in number, being himself, his wife, and seven children, was obliged to sell his only cow, which supplied them with a little milk, and to sell all his potatoes, which formed their chief food. When he afterwards came to petition to receive back a little money, he asked for 1l. to procure a meal, and this was refused. The ultimate consequence was, that the poor man and his family were reduced to beggary, and became dependent on the good nature of some neighbouring people who supplied them with potatoes only. This rev. gentleman had contrived to live in a luxurious manner, he "fared sumptuously every day." He did not attend to the miseries of the people; he did not deign to hold converse with them, except when he wanted to force upon them a commutation of tithes, threatening to levy on them tithes as high as 1l. an acre. These unfortunate persons feel, most keenly, their situation, which in consequence of the heavy rates and tithes which are levied on them, has prevented them from paying their own clergyman. This Rev. gentleman's tithes were collected by two tithe proctors. One of them was a school-master, the other a tailor. They never had an acre of land of their own, and know nothing of the value of it, except what they derived from the instructions of Dr. Butler. The Rev. gentleman himself, was originally he believed, an apothecary, and had no claim to be represented as a distressed man. In addition to other advantages, he was the most successful farmer in the country; he had introduced the English mode of farming, and derived the greatest possible advantage from the adoption of that system, possessing an immense farm in a high state of cultivation. Yet this rev. gentleman was represented as a pauper. He was much misinformed if the rev. gentleman has not amassed a considerable property; and, therefore, it was extraordinary that the House should be told that 35,000l. or 40,000l. must be raised to pay him and others the arrears of tithes due to them. He hoped the people were not so simple as to allow this claim.
§ Mr. Shawwished, when it was intended to attack individuals residing at a distance, 414 that notice should be given of such intention, in order that the friends of those individuals might be prepared to defend them. As the hon. member for Wexford had talked of the conduct pursued on one side of the question, he (Mr. Shaw) would state, that he had seen an information sworn on Oath, which stated, that Walter Blackney, Esq., a Magistrate, had, at a meeting in Ireland, of the lower orders of the people, addressed to them, the following terms: "My friends, you are bound to fight for yourselves, and to use your shillelaghs in defence of your own rights, the tithes will be abolished in nine or ten months, and as the clergy have refused to take half, they shall then get nothing at all." Magistrates had also been known to order placards to be issued, with the words "No tithes; no union!"
Mr. Blackneydeclared, that the charge which had just been made against him by the hon. Member was unfounded, and had already been proved to be so on the Oaths of six persons to which he would add his own denial. The words imputed to him were a gross exaggeration of the sentiments he uttered at a meeting of his own parish.
§ Mr. Wyseobserved, that of all the men in the House, the hon. and learned member for Dublin was the last who should accuse others of exciting the people, for he had heard of a speech made by the hon. and learned Member, which contained some such words as the following: "If the Government will not attend to our Representations, we must take up the cause ourselves," quoting, he believed, the celebrated admonition, "To your tents, O Israel."
§ Mr. Shawrose to give the flattest contradiction to the statement of the hon. member for Tipperary that the forms of Parliament would allow. He never used the words in the sense ascribed to them by the hon. Member. He had never encouraged dissension in the country, and he had never made speeches out of doors which he would not make in that House.
§ Mr. Leadermoved that the Petition from Woollen Grange be printed.
Sir Robert Inglissaid, that seeing the Petition replete with personalities, he would certainly oppose its being printed.
§ Lord Ebringtonfelt it, necessary also to protest against the printing the Petition.
§ The House divided:—Ayes 51; Noes 130—Majority 79.
| List of the AYES. | |
| Anson, Hon. Col. | Killeen, Lord |
| Berkeley, Captain | Lambert, H. |
| Blackney, W. | Lambert, J. |
| Bodkin, J. J. | Lennox, Lord G. |
| Brabazon, Viscount | Macnamara, W. |
| Brown, J. | Musgrave, Sir R. |
| Bunbury, Sir H. | O'Connell, D. |
| Burke, Sir J. | O'Connell, M. |
| Byng, G. | O'Farrell, M. |
| Calcraft, G. | Paget, T. |
| Callaghan, D. | Phillips, Sir R. B. |
| Carew, R. S. | Ponsonby, Hon. J. |
| Cavendish, Lord | Power, R. |
| Chapman, M. L. | Ross H. |
| Dixon, J. | Ruthven, E. S. |
| Doyle, Sir J. M. | Sheil, L. |
| Duncannon Viscount | Thicknesse, R. |
| Gillon, W. D. | Walker, C. A. |
| Grattan, H. | Wallace, T. |
| Grattan, J. | Warburton, H. |
| Hill, Lord A. | Westenra, Hon. H. |
| Hort, Sir W. | White, S. |
| Hughes, Colonel | Wilbraham, G. |
| Hume, J. | |
| Hunt, J. | TELLERS. |
| James, W. | Leader, N. P. |
| Jephson, C. D. O. | Wyse, T. |