HC Deb 04 February 1828 vol 18 cc102-7
Mr. George Bankes

said, that he rose to ask leave to bring in a bill, to which he could anticipate no objection. The question had been, brought before the legislature thirty years ago, with the intention of remedying the defect to which his motion now had reference. Last session he had had the honour of introducing a similar bill to the House; and had it not been for the abrupt ermination of the session, he had no doubt that it would have met with the same success in the other House as it had done n that. But whether or no such would nave been the case, he had at least a right to anticipate that there was a feeling in its favour. He was aware that there were some difficulties in the way of the measure, but he did not anticipate that they would be sufficient to negative the bill; and he trusted that, by the attention of parliament, those difficulties might be removed. It was not on his own suggestion, but of others, that he offered this bill to the notice of the House; and he requested to call their attention to the petition which had been presented from the Roman Catholics, complaining of the disadvantages under which they laboured on that account; and he did so the rather, as the petition was not only numerously signed, but likewise by persons of consideration and consequence, amongst whom were the names of lords Shrewsbury, Dormer, Stafford, sir T. Stanley, sir R. Bedding-field, and others. The law respecting the land-tax had been passed in the 4th of William and Mary, in the year 1692; and the rate imposed by it was 4s. in the pound on all landed estates throughout the kingdom, but those who should refuse to take certain oaths; so that, by this arrangement, the Catholics were burthened, without any relief being afforded to the Protestants. The law continued in this state till the year 1794; when it was first proposed to exempt the Catholics from this very unjust penalty. But the legislature, had not rightly considered the origin of the act; and, therefore, they had not adopted the proper method of affording relief. It was not fair that what was taken off the Catholics should be thrown upon the rest of the kingdom; and for that reason, as the land-tax had never been raised generally on the whole kingdom, but on divisions of hundreds, which were made in the time of William, and were continued to the present day, the parliament had found itself placed in a difficulty. The consequence had been, that it was expressly provided by that act, that the deficiency should not be thrown upon the public at large, but confined to the division in which the reduction took place. This, however, had been found by experience to be so embarrassing, that except in those divisions where fresh lands had been inclosed, no relief at all was afforded; and instances had actually occurred, where, a Catholic being possessed of the whole hundred, it was impossible that the arrangement could be of any benefit to him, as there was none but his own land on which he might throw it. This act had continued in operation through 1795 and 1796, until the year 1797, when the Land Tax Redemption act was introduced; and in that a clause had been inserted, which, it was supposed, would be adequate to the difficulty: but it had again been found inefficient. In cases where the hundreds were charged at more than 4s. in the pound, it was competent to certain commissioners to reduce the amount; but this was no benefit to the Catholics, for there were very few places in the kingdom where the rate was so high as 4s. The total sum raised in king William's time was about two millions; and as only the same amount was collected now, it was clear that there was no necessity for so high a rate as then, as the value of lands since those times had increased prodigiously; and, consequently, a rate of from one to two shillings was on the average sufficient to cover the amount required. This was the outline of the grievance of which the Roman Catholics complained; and he could not but suppose that it was a real grievance, as he did not conceive that so many noblemen and gentlemen would petition parliament against an imaginary evil; and if the House, as he did, believed it to be true, he had no doubt that it would join with him most cordially in endeavouring to do away with the injustice. Perhaps it would be said, that the land-tax was unequally raised throughout the country—that in some places a rate of one penny or two-pence was required, and in others a rate of two shillings from Protestants: he did not deny that this was the case; but how it had originated it was not easy to decide. It was alleged by some, that their ancestors, when the tax was first proposed, were so loyal and well-affected towards king William, that they consented to pay a higher rate than they need to have done, and felt pride in contributing more than was necessary; though, perhaps, the reason might be more fairly found in the fact, that those counties where the land-tax was most heavy, were the home counties; which in those days were richer and better able to pay than the midland and more northern counties, which, compared with what they are now, were very poor. But, whether the inequality arose from these or any other causes, he could not think that, because the Protestants were not equally assessed, the Catholics were entitled to no relief. The principle of the measure he was about to propose had already been avowed by parliament; and if it could find any way of getting rid of the grievance, he was persuaded the House would do so. That it was practicable he firmly believed; and he wished it to be understood, that he only proposed to relieve those cases where a specific grievance could be proved: but it would not answer the purpose of those whose cause he was then advocating, to be put back as they had been in 1794; for, although that bill had proposed to afford them relief, it had done no such thing. It was not until the subject had been repeatedly pressed upon his notice, that he consented to undertake the task, but he felt himself bound to say, that he did so with unqualified pleasure. The hon. gentleman then moved, "That leave be given to bring in a bill to relieve Roman Catholics from double assessments to the Land Tax."

Mr. Hume

, in seconding the motion, said, he had heard that the payments of the family of only one Catholic gentleman, sir Richard Beddingfield, had amounted, under this double assessment, to 50,000l. The act under which the Catholics were supposed to receive relief in these cases empowered the commissioners to apportion the sum thus taken off the lands of the Catholics, upon the property of other persons in the same township or district. That course had been successfully followed by the commissioners, of which an hon. friend near him (Mr. Hurst) was one, in the district of Horsham, and he believed without any inconvenience or complaint; but, in other parts of the country, from whence the complaints now came, he had heard it was impossible to give such relief under any act which had been passed upon the subject. The late secretary to the Treasury, had distinctly declared, when the government were applied to on the subject, that no relief could be afforded to the Catholics which would not produce a loss to the Treasury to the full amount of that double land-tax from which the Catholic might be exempted. So many changes had taken place, since 1798, in the state of the property subject to the land-tax; so much of it had changed possessors; so much of it had been redeemed; that any attempt to spread the burthen of the double tax upon other parts of the same district, would be found impossible. Now that the evil was known, and that it was evident no remedy existed, the House must see the propriety of acceding to the motion.

Mr. Hurst

said, he had acted in the capacity of a commissioner, and had been enabled to relieve some families who had been assessed for the double tax from the time of king William. Great difficulties at first occurred in throwing the sum upon any other property; but after a laborious investigation, the commissioners discovered lands which had never been taxed at all; and upon them they imposed the burthen from which they relieved those who sought relief under the act. But he apprehended that great difficulties must attend such, experiments elsewhere; and as the whole amount of this double tax was small, he apprehended there could be no objection to grant the relief proposed by the bill.

Mr. Curteis

said, there had been a manifest disposition on the part of the legislature to relieve the Catholics from this double assessment. The manner in which a similar measure was suffered to pass last session, was extremely indecorous. The House was not aware of the extent of the sacrifice which this bill required. If, as he believed, relief was to be had under the act at present existing, and without any sacrifice of revenue, he saw no reason why they should assent to the proposed bill.

Mr. Baring

thought, that, if there was any case in which economical considerations should be disregarded, it was that which involved in its execution an act of positive cruelty and injustice. The House was not only called upon to grant the boon required upon every principle of justice, but in accordance with a principle recognized by a previous act of parliament. They were not now called upon to grant a relief which ought not be withheld; but they were required to carry into effect a measure of relief, the necessity of which has been admitted, and sanctioned by act of parliament. The hon. member for Sussex had said, that those who advised this measure had not looked into the case of the sufferers, and asserted that the act gave relief in every case where the Land-tax exceeded 4s. in the pound; but the fact was, that in many cases the tax did not amount even to half of that sum, and those persons were therefore placed out of the operation of the relief intended by the legislature; for their condition rendered it impossible that they could make a demand under the provisions of the act. The bill passed in 1794 was in fact, no relief at all; and some other measure ought to be adopted. It might be proposed to throw an additional burthen on the Protestant landholder in the same hundred; but this was equally unjust. He could see no remedy but that of making the loss fall on the public at large. Independent of the injustice of throwing it on the Protestants, there were many instances in which the Land-tax had been redeemed by the greater number of landed proprietors in certain districts; and if such a mode of relief were resorted to, the burthen might fall on one individual. He could see no remedy but by a sacrifice of the public income; and, considering the injustice of the tax, he was sure that every member would submit to such a step.

Mr. G. Dawson

said, that although he opposed what was called Catholic emancipation, yet none of the reasons which influenced him upon that question, had any bearing upon the present. As the justice of the proposed measure appeared to be generally admitted, it would not be necessary for him to say any thing about it; although he thought that the injustice of the present system had been overrated. That injustice could operate only in a few instances. He believed that, by appealing to the commissioners, relief might be obtained; but only by throwing the surcharge upon the Protestants. This operation was doubtless very complicated, from the many statutes upon the subject, and from the Land-tax, in the time of Mr. Pitt, having been made redeemable. The principal sufferer was, undoubtedly, sir R. Beddingfield. On his estate there was a parish where the act might be brought into operation; but, unfortunately, he was the owner of the whole parish, and all the inhabitants were Roman Catholics; so that there could be no apportionment through which relief might reach them. He could see no remedy for the grievance, but an act which would at once relieve the Catholics, burthening the Protestants of the same district. The loss to the revenue, he trusted, would be trifling; but it would be only an act of justice.

Leave was given to bring in the bill.