HC Deb 06 April 1827 vol 17 cc280-2
Sir. E. Knatchbull rose

for the purpose of making a suggestion to the hon. baronet near him; a suggestion which he hoped would have the effect of inducing him to withdraw his notice of that motion which had excited so much interest in the country. He thought that, when he referred to circumstances which all the world knew, the hon. baronet would see in those circumstances sufficient to justify him in requesting the hon. baronet to withdraw his motion altogether, and that, too, without questioning either the propriety of the motion, or the soundness of judgment which the hon. baronet had exercised in framing it.

Sir T. Gooch

agreed with the suggestion thrown out by the hon. member for Kent; and he trusted that the hon. member for Somersetshire, taking into consideration the circumstances to which allusion had been made, would withdraw his motion. At present, it could not he brought forward either with benefit to the country or to the House. The hon. baronet who had proposed the motion must be aware of what every one else knew; namely, that his majesty was in town, and that, if the new administration had not actually been formed, matters were in a train for settlement.

Sir T. Lethbridge

said, he must confess that what he had heard from his two hon. friends had made some impression upon him. The observations they had made had thrown him into a situation of great difficulty; and he could hardly say at that moment what course he should determine to pursue. He could assure them, that he was always most anxious to submit his opinion to the judgment of others; and if, upon this occasion, he could ascertain the sense of the House, he would adopt it; but he had no means of doing so. No one valued the judgment of his two hon. friends more than he did, but he confessed he could not, on this occasion, at once determine to follow their advice. He entertained a due sense of the nature of the motion; which, he was well aware, involved a matter of great delicacy and importance. Many of his majesty's ministers were now in the House; and, if he could understand from them that there was no necessity for the motion of which he had given notice—that the royal prerogative had been exercised—and that the administration was actually formed—he should abstain from pressing it upon the house. But, unless he had some information of that kind, he should be obliged to bring it forward, in order to ascertain what was the opinion of the House. He was sorry that his motion should have the effect of militating against any arrangements that might have been entered into; but he could not compromise any opinion which he entertained. Without some assurance that the new administration was entirely formed, or wholly agreed on, or that it was about to be formed, he should be compelled to press his motion; and he hoped that, through the means of that motion, information which would prove satisfactory to the House might be obtained, or, at least, that the ministers would favour the House with some notice on the subject.

Mr. Secretary Canning

said, that if he understood aright the propositions of the hon. baronet opposite, they amounted, in effect, to this, that whereas the hon. baronet had given a notice which, in his discretion, he thought right, for carrying-up to the Throne the opinions of that House, as to the principles on which an administration ought to be formed, he was prepared to withdraw that motion, or at least to desist now from pressing it upon the House, if he learned that an administration either was, or was on the eve of being, formed. Now, as to the fact whether there were any arrangements in progress, he should have thought, that those circumstances which he stated a few days since, and the fact of his majesty's arrival in town that clay, would have afforded a sufficient ground for the exercise of the discretion of any honourable member. But, certainly, he must say, that he was as much at a loss to comprehend the arguments on which the hon. baronet was now prepared to withdraw the motion, as he had before been to comprehend the reasons on which the hon. baronet had been induced to make it. If the hon. baronet really thought the advice of the House was necessary in the formation of an administration, surely nothing short of the actual formation of that administration—nothing short of the fact of his counsel coming too late—could logically and reasonably form a justification for his withdrawing his motion. It was whimsical enough that he should say, as say he did in effect, that he would bring forward his motion if he was too late, or he would withhold it if he was in time [hear! and a laugh]. The hon. baronet must judge for himself as to the course he should pursue; but he was bound in honesty and in candour to tell the hon. baronet, that the arrangements had not so far advanced as to afford him the excuse that he must withdraw his motion—for he was not yet too late.

Sir T. Lethbridge

certainly wanted no excuse to withdraw the motion. As the right hon. gentleman had afforded the House no information on the subject, he should feel bound to press his motion.

Colonel Wood

was about to explain the reason which had induced him to present himself to the House, but the cries of "Order, order! Chair, chair!" were so loud as to compel him to resume his seat.

The Speaker

then said, that the House could not fail to observe the inconvenience of proceeding with this discussion. Not only was there no question before the House, but when the hon. member for Somersetshire had been asked, in no very concise manner, to withdraw the motion of which he had given notice, he had distinctly declined doing so; and the hon. member would, therefore, see the necessity of postponing any observations he might have to make, until that motion came regularly before the House.