HC Deb 02 April 1824 vol 11 cc105-7

On the resolution, "That 620,000l. be granted to defray the Extraordinary Expenses of the army for the year 1824,"

Colonel Davies

objected to the item in this grant, charging 2,300l. for pensions to the knights of Malta.' His objection was founded on this ground—that, of the parties who received these pensions, some were not knights of Malta, and others were receiving pensions from the island of Malta itself. He considered this item to be as gross a job as ever was perpetrated by any administration. Last year he had not seen it in the estimates; and he had hoped it had been withdrawn for ever.

Mr. W. Horton

observed, that the item in question was a payment made on account of the government of the island of Malta. A special injunction had been given to that government to make inquiry whether the parties who received these pensions were entitled to be considered as knights of Malta. That inquiry was not in progress; and it was thought right not to withdraw the pensions until it was concluded? The pensions had been granted to the parties who now held them from motives of humanity, during the French revolution—an event which had reduced the greater portion of them from comparative opulence to the most wretched state of want and destitution.

Mr. Hume

wished to draw the attention of the committee to the very great expense to which this country was put, on account of the islands of Guernsey and Jersey. They were, so far as this country was concerned, altogether free from taxation: the revenue of the Crown was wasted; at least no part of it was appropriated to the service of the islands, and the people of England were constantly called on to meet every expense. He observed a charge of 4,471l. for extraordinary military expences, on account of the staff. Now, he had formerly moved for a correspondence between his majesty's government and the authorities in the islands, from which it appeared, that a part of this force was not wanted, and was really considered a nuisance. He had received a communication from a highly respectable individual, who stated, that nothing would be more grateful to the inhabitants of these islands, than the removal of the staff, for the support of which the people of England were obliged to pay. If those islands must have the protection of the British government, they certainly ought to defray a portion of the expense. It would shortly be his duty to present a petition to the House on the subject. It was the work of a gentleman who had gone through those islands; he had put his observations on paper; and he stated, very distinctly what, in his opinion the islands ought to contribute towards defraying the various expenses incidental to their government. It was a fit subject for the House to take into its consideration. He was quite sure the estimate might be reduced one half, without crippling the service in the smallest degree. He had himself made out a list of various items which might be greatly reduced. If the right hon. gentleman opposite would make use of any hint it contained, it was entirely at his service. It was fit the country should know what became of the revenue of these islands. Situated as Great Britain was, her expenditure ought to be lessened in every possible way; but though these islands were capable of producing a certain revenue, the people of England were obliged to pay for their civil and military establishment. The latter was wholly unnecessary; for the inhabitants of the islands would consider it a pride to clothe and arm the militia, but government would not allow it.

Mr. Secretary Peel

understood the hon. member to say, that he could throw out some suggestions by which the expenses of Guernsey and Jersey might be lessened If the hon. member would favour him with those suggestions, they should receive the fullest attention. It was his duty to listen to such communications; and, if a curtailment of expense could be effected, that object certainly should not be neglected. When the hon. gentleman presented to the House the rather extraordinary document (for it was not a petition, but a two or three months' tour through Guernsey) to which he had alluded, he would read it with attention. With respect to the military part of the question, he might observe, that the constitution of these islands was of a very ancient date, and that no individuals were more jealous of their old customs than the inhabitants were. According to their laws, every male, from sixteen to sixty, was bound to military service. But it was deemed better to have a few expert soldiers, than an undisciplined rabble; which would probably be the case if they were left to clothe and arm themselves; and therefore it was necessary that a staff should be kept up.