STATE OF THE NATION, AS CONNECTED WITH THE EVENTS NOW PASSING IN EUROPE.

HC Deb 04 May 1821 vol 5 cc510-9

On the order of the day, for going into a Committee of Supply,

Mr. Hutchinson

rose to submit the motion of which he had given notice. He began by observing, that it was not his intention on the present occasion to interfere in any degree with the subject on which a noble lord (W. Bentinck) had given a notice. If he thought that his motion would anticipate, or at all interfere with that of the noble lord, he certainly would not press it. In entering upon so vast and important a subject, he was conscious of his own inadequacy to the task. He would, however, open his view of it to the House, confident that it would be ably enlarged upon by those honourable members who should support him. Looking at the present situation of Europe, he could not but feel considerable apprehension, as well at the nature of the events which were passing, as at the conduct of the British government with respect to them. When the situation of Italy was brought before parliament in February last his majesty's ministers declared that it was not their intention to interfere with respect to Naples. The document which was at that time laid before, and made the subject of discussion in, the other House, declared that the intentions of our government were those of strict neutrality; but nevertheless, they were not backward in showing what, their feelings were, and how far those feelings were against the cause of the Neapolitans. It was then contended, that the object of the Austrians was not aggrandisement, but the security of their Italian possessions. It was then thought by many, that the Neapolitans and the other Italian states would have had sufficient force to repel the aggressions of Austria; and glad he would have been if the whole of the force sent by the tyrannical government of Austria had been destroyed. But what had happened? Naples was now completely under the Austrian yoke; the kingdom of Sardinia was likewise in her possession; but notwithstanding this, we found that an immense body of Russians were rushing from their woods to give assistance to Austria, which he sincerely regretted that Austria did not need. Thus we saw that Austria was in full possession of Italy, the Russians advancing in great force to support that power, while she was preparing to govern her newly acquired posssessions (for such he would consider them) with a most bloody code. Under these circumstances, it behoved his majesty's ministers to do something to tranquillize parliament and the country on the subject. Looking at the disturbed state of Greece; seeing that in Spain some of the most respectable individuals had been deported, and that a civil war existed in several provinces, in which, indeed, martial law had been proclaimed, and adverting to the great changes of every description which bad taken place since February, he did not see how the noble marquis could justify himself in sitting still and allowing tyranny to be triumphantly established in Europe, without the slightest interference on our part to prevent it. In this state of things, anxiously as he and his friends had laboured to little purpose for some weeks past to reduce the army estimates to what they ought to be for a peace establishment, and though he thought war one of the greatest calamities that could befall this country, yet he thought it right to say there might be that which would be more fatal even than war to this country and the liberties of mankind. He did not see that the noble marquis and his colleagues could answer, not for the peace of Europe, but for the peace of this country, if they suffered Russia and Austria to advance further, as they said, to seek security, but as it would ultimately be seen to carry into effect new schemes of aggrandisement. He thought ministers could not answer for the security of Europe, or the mari- time greatness of this Country, if they now suffered the allies to occupy a military position, from which all the force of the empire would be insufficient to dislodge them at a future period. There was no danger that justified their present movements; but tyrants and despots wished all subjects to be slaves, and would put down liberty on any pretence whatever. In Italy they would put it down on account of the Carbonari—in Spain they would put it down on account of its being desired by what they could not respect, the population of a country—and they would find some excuse for putting it down in England; if they could approach our shores in safety. It was not new to call on England to come forward when other powers had taken strong and threatening positions. In such cases it had long been the policy of this country to interfere, and therefore it would not satisfy him to be told, that whatever Russia and Austria might intend with respect to Spain, this country had nothing to do with it. Heretofore, England had gone to war to establish a balance of power in Europe. For that we were at war during nearly the whole of the reign of Louis 14th, and for that we had lately been at war for nearly a quarter of a century. In 1790, in the case of Nootka Sound, it was thought right to interfere, and the preparations then made on the part of Spain were thought sufficient to justify a message from the Crown to that House on the subject. In 1790 and 1791, we armed and continued armed for fourteen months, not because we apprehended any direct attack from the Empress Catherine, but because it was not considered safe for the British interests, that Russia should be suffered to take possession of Oczakow. On that occasion lord Grenville, then the secretary of state for foreign affairs, ridiculed the idea that England was not interested in what was passing on the continent. God forbid that he should think it absolutely necessary that the country should be again plunged into the horrors of war! He hoped that the noble marquis, however, would make some declaration calculated to meet the occasion; and he should consider a proposition for a vote of credit an advisable measure. The noble marquis would, in his opinion, not do his duty, unless he told Spain, that we were ready to make an alliance, offensive and defensive, with that country, the moment that a single soldier was sent into it by any power in Europe. Further, the noble marquis ought to let it be known in France, that the moment the French government allowed an Austrian soldier to cross the French territory to Spain, England would consider it a declaration of war. He would also recommend, if Russia persisted in her system of dictation, that a fleet should be sent up the Baltic, for the purpose of blockading every Russian port. Such a step by destroying her commerce, would soon compel her to seek an unqualified peace. If the noble marquis viewed the state of Europe with the apprehension which it was certainly calculated to excite, he ought to form a strict alliance with Spain and France. Let the king of France go on cultivating the affections of his people, let the British government show themselves disposed to assert the rights of freedom against its assailants, and England with her navy, and France with her heroes, might defy all the tyrants of the world. But if the noble marquis postponed measures of this nature, they would come-too late. He was apprehensive, however, that Russia and Austria, acting as they were on a great scale to ruin the liberties of the world would plead in their justification the conduct of the noble marquis at Vienna, at Paris, and at Aix-la-Chapelle. He was afraid they would retort upon the noble marquis, the additions to the territory of Hanover; the annexation of Belgium to Holland; the plunder of Saxony in order to aggrandize Prussia; the destruction of Wurtemburgh to incorporate it with Bavaria; the spoliation of Italy to enrich Austria; the breach of faith with Genoa to annex it to Sardinia; and all the other measures of a similar character, to which the noble marquis was a willing party. The governments of Europe would have found it impossible to put down the tyranny of Buonaparte, were it not for the co-operation of that people whose liberties were now threatened, if not destroyed. Those people were promised a constitution, but that promise was kept by a violation, not only of their liberties, but of the liberties of Europe. But, if this country charged Austria and Russia with such conduct, what would be their answer? Might they not fairly turn round upon us, and retaliate by saying, that we also had acted upon a system of spoliation and oppression? That we had done so particularly at Paris, though in a petty way? The noble marquis had placed himself in a situation of great peril and danger; but having done so, it was his duty to look the danger boldly in the face, and if he had been acting upon false principles before, he ought to retrace his steps, and use his best efforts to redeem the errors into which he had fallen. He would tell the noble marquis, that the principles acted upon by this government since the treaty of Paris and the battle of Waterloo, were subversive of the liberties of Europe. The noble marquis and his friends had stated over and over again, that the efforts made by this country had secured the happiness and tranquillity of Europe. He would ask the noble marquis where he was to look for this tranquillity of Europe. Sure he was, that it was neither to be found in this country, nor on the continent. Let the noble marquis speak out—let him tell the House what he really thought of the existing state of affairs both at home and abroad, and, he was sure that the House would be led to a different conclusion. He feared much, that unless we changed our policy—unless we acted upon principles totally different from those upon which our government had acted for some time past—we should be at length reduced to the humiliating situation of being obliged to beg our existence as a nation, as certain powers on the continent were now obliged to beg theirs. He believed that his majesty's ministers had no intention of forwarding the designs of the tyrants of the continent—they could not possess British feelings if they had; but what he feared was, that they, and the noble marquis in particular, were blind to what those tyrants wished to do, from the long intercourse which they had had together. What he wished was, that this country should take a commanding attitude, not only for the preservation of her own interests, but of the liberties and peace of Europe. The hon. member then alluded to the exertions made by the different states of the continent, against the tyrannical power of France, and contended that the promises then made to them of free constitutions, had been most shamefully violated. He wished to set himself right, as a member of that House, with the country and with Europe, and therefore it was that he had occupied the time of the House upon the present occasion. The hon. member concluded by moving, as an amendment "That this House will resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider of the State of the Nation, as connected with the Events now passing in Europe."

The Marquis of Londonderry

said, he could not help objecting to the mode of proceeding adopted by the hon. member. Nothing, however, which had been urged in the course of the hon. member's speech rendered it necessary for him to enter at that moment into the details of the subject. When he came down to the House, he was under the impression that the House was to enter into a discussion on the navy estimates, and when such a question stood upon the paper, he thought it improper that they should be diverted from it, and dragged into an inquiry into the state of the nation with reference to foreign politics. When he heard of the hon. member's motion, he thought he intended to show that the existing state of Europe would enable us to dispense with a considerable portion of the navy estimates. But instead of hearing it recommended that a great portion of those estimates should be cut down, he could not help feeling some surprise at finding an accusation made against him which would form the ground of impeachment, for not having called upon the House, by a message from the Crown, to grant such additional sums as would place the country in a situation to resist the dangers with which she was threatened. He must, however, with all respect, decline the alternative which the hon. member had given him. The hon. member had also given him much advice, and no doubt with the best possible intention; he recommended entering into treaties offensive and defensive with France and Spain, blockading the greater part of the Northern ports, and many other measures of a very salutary nature no doubt, but which were, he must say, wholly thrown away upon him. He felt it necessary also to decline all political advice, when it came from an hon. member who did not appear to see the political state of Europe with sufficient clearness to enable him to make up his own mind upon it. He felt that ministers would act with great rashness if they followed any advice so tendered to them. He never knew it to be the parliamentary course to goad ministers into any act, or any explanation, by such an irregular proceeding as that adopted by the hon. member. If the hon. member would allow him to suggest to him and to his friends, a hint which he had before thrown out, he would recommend to them, for their own sakes, not to be so very precipitate in giving their advice and opinions upon such subjects. When the affairs of Naples were last discussed in that House, he heard several statements made upon which he declined giving any opinion. He forbore at the moment from stating what line of conduct ought to be pursued by this or any other country. It now appeared, that many of the statements then made were fallacious. Whatever might be the comments and opinions now pronounced, he would recommend to the hon. mover and his friends to change their course—to act a little more upon realities rather than indulge in speculating upon possibilities, or rather upon impossibilities. By this means much of the time and attention of the House would be spared. He did not presume to say what would be the result of present events on the continent, but he would caution the hon. member against assuming, that because the Russian army had been put in motion in consequence of certain events in Piedmont, they were therefore to proceed to other countries, and for other purposes. He would not take upon himself the task of prophesying what would happen, as it was at best a useless office; but he would say, that there being at present no evidence of such a fact as the advance of the Russian army, it was wrong to assume, and then argue upon it. He would state to the House how it was that the Russian army was put in motion. It was known that an insurrection similar to that of Naples, which had been much panegyrised by several members opposite, had taken place in Piedmont. It was said that both insurrections had taken place in the cause of liberty. He never could dignify by the word liberty the attempts of a military body to resist their lawful sovereign, and tear down and destroy the most sacred institutions of the country, without knowing or caring by what those institutions were to be replaced. Of this description was the insurrection in Piedmont. The king of Sardinia resigned in favour of his brother, and his nephew was placed at the head of the provisional government. In a few days he also was forced to retire from his regency. The first act of the new government was a declaration of war against Austria. Without entering into the motives of this proceeding, it, was sufficient to state that this declaration of war originated with those favoured and panegyrized children of liberty. What then was to be done? The king of Sardinia under such circumstances, felt himself compelled to apply to Austria for assistance. Austria applied to Russia for support against this insurrectionary government; in consequence of which, a large body of Russian troops were put in motion and actually entered the Austrian frontier. But the circumstances which induced this movement having changed, did it necessarily follow that those troops were to continue their route? The consequence of this movement was, that the insurrectionary government of Piedmont ceased to exist; but it was suppressed more immediately by the troops of the king of Sardinia, as only a very small part of the Austrian troops had been brought up. If the emperors of Austria and Russia entertained the intentions imputed to them by the horn member of wishing to overturn the liberties of Europe, would they have acted in the manner they had done? It was a fact, that general Bubna, who commanded the Austrian forces had orders to enter Piedmont as little as possible, and above all, to avoid approaching the capital. Now, this savoured as little as possible of a wish to overrun the whole of Europe. He was sure the House would forgive him for protesting against the introduction of a motion which prevented them from entering on one of the most important discussions which could come before them. He was as anxious as any member that every possible economy should be practised, and with that view he was desirous that the public estimates should undergo the closest investigation in all their branches. He would repeat a declaration which he had made on a former occasion, that if those powers were to manifest any inclination or intention of aggrandising themselves at the expense of the peace of Europe. He would be the first to propose the interference of this country. We ought to look with jealousy to foreign powers, but we ought now to recollect that we were in a state of peace, and that it was our interest not to disturb that peace by unnecessarily meddling with continental affairs. He was not aware of any circumstance which could render such interference necessary at present. He would not say that circumstances might not arise which would make our interference necessary; and should such a period arrive, we should be better able to meet it by preserving as long as possible our present state of internal and external tranquillity. The motion of the hon. member was founded upon an imperfect view of the political state of Europe, and therefore he felt himself bound to oppose it.

Sir R. Wilson

apprehended that ministers were so entangled with confederate tyrants, that it was impossible for them to follow the true policy of this country, even if it were their inclination. He must however believe, that they regarded with pleasure the overthrow of the Neapolitan constitution and the threatening of the constitution of Spain. If they did not, they would have taken measures to oppose the conduct of the enemies of European liberty. He thought that the people of Europe had still enough of spirit and of strength, to vindicate the past and to secure the future. There was no cause for despair: if despair existed, it was that despair which animates, and which persuades men that they can have no security but in action and in arms. The government of Piedmont, which the noble lord had called insurrectionary, but which he would call provisional, had most truly said that the cause of constitutional liberty had been morally successful. The possession of Naples was by no means the triumph of Austria. Austria had endeavoured to suppress a volcano, and every attempt to extinguish its fires increased, instead of diminishing them. Austria looked for aid to scaffolds and military executions; but such aids only offered additional impediments to her successful occupation. Austria then, had no cause of triumph, and the people of Europe no cause to despair.

Colonel Davies

was happy to hear that the Russian army had stopped its march. He wished to be informed by the noble marquis whether he had had any communication with the Russian government upon the subject. If the object of the Russian army was only to take possession of Italy, from the conduct of the dastardly wretches who had disgraced the name of liberty, he cared not what became of them.

The Marquis of Londonderry

said, that the Russians had been put in motion at the request of the king of Sardinia, and the emperor of Austria, and therefore it was clear that their march had no reference to Spain. Further than this he had not gone, except in cautioning gentlemen against assuming as fact that of which there was no proof.

The amendment was negatived.