HC Deb 16 March 1819 vol 39 cc1000-4
Mr. Hume

rose to submit his promised motion, for a return of papers relative to, and declaratory of, the judicial system at present pursued in India. On a subject of so much general importance, he thought it proper to offer one or two observations, as he was anxious that the House should clearly understand the nature of that system. He should begin by declaring, that the whole of our judicial system in India had been very much misrepresented. In this country, we had been completely in the dark, as to the deplorable state of jurisprudence in India, both civil and criminal, and as to the state of the police there. The documents he should now move for, as well as other documents in his own private possession, were connected with a subject which nearly concerned the welfare of no less than from seventy to eighty millions of souls. Yet, upon these important matters, the public now were, as they had been for the last twenty years past, in a state of profound ignorance. Civil justice was, in fact, virtually denied to suitors; those very suitors being obliged to pay the government, on the amounts claimed by them, from 50 down to 7 and 6 per cent. This he was able to declare, not from any official documents obtained by him from the East India Company, but from their own regulations of 1814 regulations, in which the House would find with astonishment, that a fine was levied on the value sued for, decreasing as the amount increased, from 50 down to 1 per cent. That astonishment would be much increased, when he stated, that every document requisite to the progress of a suit, the citations, examinations, and depositions of witnesses, &c. were all to be written, every sheet of them, upon stamped paper; thereby increasing these heavy expenses to an enormous total;—expenses which, under the native princes, never exceeded 25 per cent on the amount claimed. This, then, was almost a virtual denial of justice altogether. The consequence of these unreasonable disbursements was, that, for years together, suitors were unable to obtain justice; and it was stated in the documents already on the table, that in the course of a long life a man could scarcely expect to see any determination of suits commenced in Asia. The consequence of all this had been, an increase of crime, enormous and such as that House was little prepared to learn. The depravity of the inhabitants of Bengal, in particular, had exceeded all bounds. He blamed no individual: it was the system under which such abuses existed, of which he complained. When the House understood that the extensive system of lord Cornwallis, enacted in 1792, prevailed in one part of India, while in another it was altered and disfigured, so that throughout those extensive dominions there was neither uniformity of law, nor uniformity in its operation, he hoped they would feel how necessary it was to consider of a remedy for such alarming evils. He should therefore move, "That there be laid before this House, copies or extracts of the reports and proceedings of the several presidencies in India, concerning the administration of justice, civil and criminal, and of the police, from 1810 to the present time."

Mr. Canning

said, that as the hon. gentleman's motion seemed to have been made merely for the purpose of obtaining information, he would trouble the House with a very few words. It was undoubtedly true, that much difference and controversy had existed; not as to the judicial system attempted to be introduced into India, because that was modelled upon our own, and such emendations had been engrafted upon it as local circumstances were thought to require; but as to the adaptation of that system to that particular country. Were his own opinion to be asked upon this subject, he should not, undoubtedly, draw so highly coloured a picture as the hon. gentleman had done; but he should rather say, that the benevolent intentions of lord Cornwallis had been in many instances frustrated. If some evils had flowed from that system, he was by no means prepared to bay, that no good had been effected by it. It should be remembered, that it was a system sanctioned by his name, and by the approbation of that House; and as the emanation of so great and luminous a mind, it ought at least to be approached with hesitation and respect. Of the several motions which the hon. gentleman had purposed to make, and which he had done him the honour to transmit to him some time ago, he had selected four which he thought would be found to answer his object best; and the papers required by these even, would be so voluminous, that he was sure the day proposed for the discussion of the subject would prove to be a very distant one.

Lord Morpeth

considered the motion as one calculated to confer the best benefit on an extended population, namely, a just administration of the law: with this benefit they were at present entirely unacquainted, and India presented a melancholy scene in consequence. It was impossible that the House should not enter into the views of the hon. mover. For himself, it was his decided opinion, that however extensive our territorial dominions in Hindustan might be—however we might have subdued faction and revolt—however we might have crushed a formidable confederacy of Mabratta princes, and now ranged those predatory and feudatory chiefs under our own banners—yet our best security and our firmest empire was to be established in the affections, and attachment of the native population; and those could only be acquired by making them, feel that equity and protection were the principles of our jurisprudence.

Sir W. Burroughs

declared, that to his own knowledge there was no justice in India until the establishment of the regulations introduced by lord Cornwallis, whose system had his complete approbation. The diffusion of it was of course attended with difficulty, and many years must elapse before it could be exclusively in operation. Its progress, however, had been greater than could have been expected, although much impeded by a false economy in limiting the number of individuals employed in the administration of justice. He had had an opportunity, during a residence of 21 years of witnessing the improvement which the system had made in the character of the natives, and the inducements which it held out to the inhabitants of the neighbouring states to emigrate to the British dominions. As to the system of police, it was dreadful. The population of Calcutta was estimated at from 750,000 to 800,000 souls; consisting of Hindoos, Mahommedans, Malays, Chinese, Jews, Europeans, Arabs, &c. whose occupations were as various as their description. To keep so motley a grouped in order, certainly required much vigilance; but great oppression was frequently exercised. Persons, after apprehension, were sometimes kept in custody for months together, without examination. Some even died in prison before the time for their examination arrived. He knew an instance of a young Malay female, not twenty years of age, who was sent by a magistrate to the town guard, where she remained many weeks: and when eventually liberated, it appeared that no information had been given against her. In fact, the abuses in the police both at Calcutta, and in the neighbouring districts were numerous, flagrant, and abominable.

Mr. Hume

expressed his concurrence in the selection from his motions made by the right hon. the president of the board Of control. Adverting to what had just fallen from the learned gentleman, he observed, that if there was one evil in India which required correction more than another it was the state of the police. Many months often elapsed before persons who were apprehended were brought to an examination; during which time they were kept in crowded prisons, where death frequently overtook them. The whole system of the Bengal police was carried on by hired spies, the heads of bands of rubbers, who were admitted king's evidence. So far from there being any economy in the judicial department, the administration of justice on the whole of Europe did not cost so much as the administration of justice in the British dominions in India. He congratulated the House and the public, on the recent publication of Mr. Mill, which contained so many accurate statements and so much clear reasoning, that it could not fail to be eminently beneficial.

Mr. Hutchison

dwelt emphatically on the, importance of India, and on the wretched state of the police and administration of justice in that country; and impressed on the other members of his majesty's government, the expediency of taking measures forthwith to bring the natives of that country out of the state of wretched-ness in which they, were plunged.

Mr. Canning

Said he could assure the hon. member, that it was not the first time the subject had been under consideration; it might be called the daily food of those whose duty it was to superintend the police, and to improve the internal condition of our East India provinces. But a controversy did still subsist between very able men, whether the system of British jurisprudence, which had been transplanted there with the best intentions, was adapted to the wants, the habits, and the interests of the natives. With his limited experience, he could scarcely say what was the inclination of his own mind respecting it; much less could he, although it had been the subject of his anxious study, express a confident opinion, where there was the authority of lord Cornwallis on one side, and that of a distinguished successor on the other. But if equally balanced in other respects, still it was evident that the latter had the advantage of experience to set against the prospective benevolence with which the system was introduced. Under the chief-justice ship of sir E. East, however, many difficulties in practice had been removed, and some points of difference set at rest. He did not apprehend that the subject would be ripe for being referred to a committee during the present session, but he looked forward with hope that it would be in a fit state for consideration in the course of the next.

The motion was agreed to, as were also the following for,

1. "Copies or Extracts of the Dispatches from the court of Directors of the East India Company to the several Presidencies in India, concerning the administration of justice, civil and criminal, and of the police, from 1810 to the present, time 2. Account of the Expense of the Police and judicial establishments in Bengal, Behar, Orissa, and Benares, in the year 1792, and in the year 1818, or the latest year, to which it can be made up. 3. Amount of the: judicial Charges in India at the three Presidencies of Bengal Fort St. George, and Bombay in the year 1818, or for the latest year for which the same can be made up distinguishing the principal heads of charge, and the expenses of his majesty's courts."