HC Deb 19 May 1815 vol 31 cc284-5

On the order of the day, that the Bill to make further regulations for the registry of ships built in India be read a second time,

Mr. Marryat

moved, that counsel be heard against the Bill on the part of the persons who had petitioned to that effect.

The Speaker

intimated that counsel could not be heard until the question of the second reading was disposed of; it would then be competent to introduce them if the House thought proper preparatory to the committal of the Act.

Sir C. Monck

trusted, that the second reading did not identify those with the principle of the Bill, who sought to hear counsel against it at the bar.

Mr. Alderman Atkins

expressed his anxiety that counsel should be heard before the principle was acknowledged.

Mr. Wallace

said, it would be competent for the House to enter into a full discussion upon the merits of the measure when it was about to be committed.

Sir C. Monk

trusted, that the question would still be open for general discussion after the second reading.

Mr. Wallace

replied in the affirmative.

Mr. Marryat

urged the number of the petitioners and the importance of their complaint, as sufficient grounds for their being heard by counsel.

Mr. Alderman Atkins

suggested, that some regulations might be entered into which would obviate the grievances of which the petitioners complained.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

intimated, that the object at which the hon. alderman aimed, was attainable in the committee; where the regulations could be either wholly opposed or modified. The Bill was read a second time. Mr. Marryat then moved, "That counsel be called in." The Speaker inquired, whether they were in attendance? The Serjeant at Arms reported that they were. When the question was put, that counsel be called in,

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

objected to the motion. It was known to the House, that a committee had been sitting upon this subject from April to July during the last session. Counsel were heard in that committee, and every argument which could be adduced was then laid before them on the part of the petitioners. After an investigation so general as that to which he alluded, it would be a a Waste of time, as well of money, for the parties to countenance a further renewal of topics which had grown familiar by their repetition to almost every member of the House.

Mr. Marryat

repeated the importance of the subject, in justification of the motion he had made. In different private establishments on the Thames, three or four thousand shippers, and an equal number of other artificers, had been employed. At present there was not a single ship building in those places; nor was it likely there would be one, if this Bill passed. Under such circumstances, he trusted the indulgence of the House would allow the petitioners to be heard by their counsel at the bar.

Mr. Sturges Bourne

said, it was without example to call upon the House for a further hearing, after that which had already taken place. On the subject volumes of evidence had been transmitted to him, and he supposed other members were equally put in possession of its merits. It was idle to say, that any new light could be thrown upon the case.

A division then took place, when the numbers were: For calling in counsel, 13; Against it, 33.