EAST INDIA COMPANY'S BONDS BILL. (Hansard, 23 May 1811)

§ Mr. R. Dundas
moved the second reading of the East India Bonds Bill.

Lord Folkestone
opposed the Bill, which, he contended, the present situation of the Company's affairs did not warrant, there being at present a balance of 3,000,000l. against the company, arising from bills drawn in India. There was a Committee then sitting for the purpose of examining into their affairs, and he thought more information should be submitted to the House, before they agreed to the present measure.

§ Mr. Wallace
said, that whenever any plan was proposed for the accommodation of the East India Company, there was al-ways to be found a set of gentlemen on the other side of the House ranged in op-position against it. The present Bill had no other object than to enable the East India Company to raise money on their own credit in the way most convenient to them.

§ Mr. Creevey
observed, it was singular enough that the company, when they had a revenue of seven millions, should have a surplus of one million, while now that they have a revenue of fifteen millions, they have no surplus. One was at a loss to conceive that with so great an increase of revenue, the bond debt of the company should go on increasing as it did. The public ought to be put in possession of a state of the company's affairs, as was done in 1793. The celebrated Committee up stairs, which had now sat for four years, and which during the present session had not in fact been occupied altogether more than four hours, or six at the utmost, seemed to have avoided all trouble of discussion of the company's affairs. Before such a measure as the present was allowed to pass, the public ought to be put in possession of the true state of the company's affairs; and he pledged himself to move Resolutions of fact on that subject in a subsequent stage of the Bill, and to prove that the company were actually six millions worse than nothing. In order to give time for the production of the information on which alone 291 the present proceeding could be with propriety founded, he moved as an Amendment, "That the Bill be read a second time that day se'nnight."

§ Mr. R. Dundas
said the hon. gent. (Mr. Creevey) had wandered quite away from the subject of debate. The question was, whether the Company were or were not to be allowed to raise two millions on their own credit, not to increase their present debt, but by borrowing money in England, to enable them to pay off their debt in India. Bills of exchange had been drawn on the Directors from India, for which it was necessary that funds should be provided. The hon. gent. asked for more explanation, but what more explanation was in reality wanted? It was merely a transfer of a sum from creditors, to whom they were paying eight and ten per cent. to other creditors in this country at 5 percent. With respect to the Committee, they had reported fully on the accounts up to 1809, and the moment the accounts for the ensuing years could be got ready, they would be submitted to the House. He spoke of the absurdity of the hon. gentleman's treating the affairs of a Company in possession of the revenues of an immense empire, as he would treat the affairs of a private merchant, maintaining that if they could not instantly pay off their debt, they were to be considered as bankrupt. Could Great Britain pay off her debt instantly, and was Great Britain to be considered, therefore, bankrupt? But had the Company means to set against their debt." He maintained they had, and on grounds fully as authentic as any thing which he believed the hon. gent. could produce. Last year, for in-stance, there was an estimated deficit; but in place of that, there was a surplus of 3 to 400,000l. Moreover, the interest of the debt in India, had been reduced by the able management of lord Minto, from 8 or 10 to 0 per cent. which alone would occasion a saving of 500,000l. The hon. gent. had thought fit to wonder why the charges had not been reduced so much as they ought to have been, though there had been a peace of six years. But the establishment in India had not been reduced; several expeditions had been fitted out there, a great part of the ex-pence of which would fall upon the East India Company; and there had been also occasional disturbances in India, The debt of the Company was not now more than 23 millions. He asked the 292 hon. gent. when he meant to bring forward his vindictive motion against the East India Company, for their breach of faith in making a dividend of 10 per cent?

§ Mr. Creevey
said he should not bring forward his motion till the Report of the right hon. gent., the Chairman of the Committee, was discussed.