HC Deb 01 February 1809 vol 12 cc276-92

(By Mr. Wardle.)

Did you reside in Gloucester-place, in a house of the D. of Y.'s, in July 1805? Yes, I did.

Did you live under his protection? Yes, I did.

Do you recollect Dr. T. about that period attending you in ids professional line? He attended me, I believe. about that time.

Do you recollect that an application was made to you by Dr. T., to effect an exchange between lieut.-col. Knight and lieut-col. Brooke? Yes, I do.

Do you recollect that lie urged great dispatch? Yes.

Did he hold out any expectation of a pecuniary compliment, provided you effected the exchange? Certainly he did.

Do you recollect his mentioning any particular sum? Yes, I think he did say something about a couple of hundred pounds.

Do you recollect that Dr. T. told you, that col. K. had been long endeavouring to get the exchange? Yes, I do.

The Attorney General

here interposed. He stated that this mode of interrogation was irregular, and that these were not proper questions to put to a witness.— The witness was ordered to withdraw.

Mr. Wardle

said, He conceived himself perfectly correct in the questions he had put; and it was far from him to wish to do any tiling that did not meet the concurrence of the Committee.

Mr. Beresford farther

noticed, that witnesses to be examined ought not to have the advantage of knowing the evidence given by the preceding witnesses.

Mr. Wardle,

who had left the house for a short time, observed, that if the hon. gent, alluded to him, he could say. That he went out merely for the purpose of informing Dr. Thynne, that his farther attendance was not necessary that night. In that interval he had not had any conversation with any of the witnesses except Mrs. Clarke, who asked who was under examination at the time? And he answered Mr. Knight.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

stated, that the purpose for which the hon. gent. had left the house, could not be mistaken, as it was in consequence of an explanation with him respecting Dr. Thynne's farther attendance.

Mr. Fuller

said, as the hon. gent. had asked the last witness if she had been, at a certain period, under the protection of the Duke of York, he wished to ask whether that lady was not now under the protection of the hon. gent.?

The house not appearing to countenance such a question, Mrs. Clarke was again called to the bar, and her examination was re-commenced.

(By Mr. Wardle.)

Did you afterwards speak to the Commander in Chief upon the subject? Yes, I did.

How did you mention the business to him? I told him of it, and I gave him the slip of paper that Dr. T. gave me, with their names, just after dinner.

Did you at the same time slate to the Commander, in Chief, that you were to have any pecuniary advantage, provided the exchange took place? His royal highness asked me if I knew the parties, and I said I did not, that they would make me a compliment.

Did you state the amount of the compliment you were to have? I am not certain that I did.

Are you certain that you mentioned to the Commander in Chief, that you were to have any pecuniary compliment? I told h. r. h. that I did not know the men at all, and certainly they would make me some sort of compliment; I did not know them then.

When the exchange appeared in the Gazette, do you recollect sending it to Dr. T.? Yes, I do.

Do you recollect sending any note with that Gazette? Yes.

Do you recollect afterwards receiving any pecuniary consideration? Yes, I do.

How much? A 200l. bank note was sent me. How was that 200l. bank note sent you? It was sent me inclosed in a note, with Dr. T.'s compliments.

Do you mean to say that the person who brought it, brought compliments, or that there were any written compliments? I think it was written in the note.

After receiving the 200l. do you recollect at any time making that circumstance known to the Commander in Chief? Yes, I do.

When did you mention it to him? The same day.

What passed upon the subject? I only merely said that they had kept their promise.

Did the Commander in Chief know from you the amount of the money you had received? He knew the amount, because I shewed him the note; and I think that I got one of his servants to get it exchanged for me through h r. h.

(By Mr. Beresford.)

Where were you immediately before you came to the Bar of this House? In some room about this place.

Did you see any, and what, people there whom you knew? I saw capt. Thomson there; I Mrs. Metcalfe, the wife of Dr. Metcalfe; Miss Clifford, the lady who was with me; Mr. Wardle came in for a minute; Dr. Thynne and his Son.

(By Mr. Windham.)

Did any, and what, conversation pass between you and Mr. Wardle? None.

Not a word? He asked me how I did, and spoke to a lady there.

No other conversation passed between yon and him? None.

Has any conversation passed between you and Dr. T., since he has been examined in this House? Yes, he has been silting with me nearly ever since.

To what purpose was that conversation between you? Not at all relative to this business, it has not been addressed to me, it has been addressed to the two ladies with me, entirely.

Repeat as much of that conversation as you can recollect? I could not repeat after Dr. T. if his character is known at all to tile gentlemen here, it would be very indelicate; he has merely been laughing at the gentlemen here.

(By sir Thomas Turton)

Do you know Mr. It. Knight, and how long have you known him? I know Mr. It. Knight; he took an opportunity of calling upon me, to thank me for getting his brother so quickly through the business, soon after I came to town, about a month or six weeks afterwards, in company with Mr. Biddulph.

Was it in the month of Sept.? I do not know exactly the month, it was soon after.

What was the conversation which passed between you at that meeting? It is so long since, it is impossible for me to recollect; but Mr. Knight thanked me for getting the exchange for his brother, as he had been trying some months before, and I did it so very quickly; and Mr. Biddulph had some favour to ask of me.

Did you, upon that occasion, desire Mr. It. Knight to keep secret this transaction? Yes; I should think that I did, certainly I should say that; I do not recollect saying it, but it is very likely that I did.

Do you recollect expressing a wish that it might be kept secret, lest it should come to the ears of h. r. h. the D. of Y.? O no, never.

Or any thing to that effect? Nothing like it.

Are you quite sure of that? Positive.

(By Mr Lyttlelon.)

When you mentioned to the D. of Y., that you were to receive a compliment for promoting the exchange of commissions between these officers, did h. r. h. make any remark upon that; and if he did, what was it? He told me that he knew the business very well, that they had been Irving at it some time, and that he thought one of them was rather a bad subject; but he would do it.

When you mentioned to the D. of Y., after the exchange had taken place, that you had received a compliment, and shewed him the note of which that compliment consisted, did h. r. h. then make any observation? Not that I recollect; it was finished.

(By the Attorney General.)

At what time was this application first made to yon? Two or three days before it took place, or a couple of days.

Was it not gazetted on the Saturday? I do not recollect.

Can you be sure it was not more than three days before it was gazetted, that the application was made to you? I do not think it was. I think I might guess at the time of the year.

What time of the year was it? His r. h. was going down to Weymouth on the night that I changed the note, which was the reason that; I got the note changed; my servants could not get it changed, and his servant got it changed for me. Lord Chesterfield's family was going down, and he was going to be godfather to lord Chesterfield's child: it was the end of July or the beginning of August.

When did you first mention this transaction to col. Wardle? I mentioned it to others before I ever mentioned it to him.

When did you first mention it to col. Wardle? I do not recollect.

About how long ago? It must have been very lately.

Why do you say that it must have been very lately? Because I speak from the fact.

How long ago did you first mention it to col. Wardle? I should think within a month; he had heard it from other quarters than from me, and attacked me upon it.

Had you any knowledge of col. Wardle before be attacked you upon it? Yes, I had.

What had led to your knowledge of col. Wardle before that time? Himself.

Are you speaking of a time before the attack he made upon you with respect to this transaction? Yes, I knew him before ever he attacked me upon this subject.

How long? I suppose six months.

Had you ever mentioned the transaction voluntarily to col Wardle, till he attacked you upon it? He asked me if it was true, and I told him yes.

Had you stated this voluntarily of your own consent to col. Wardle, or only in answer to his enquiries? When Mr. Wardle told me he bad heard of it, and mentioned the circumstance to me, I said yes, it was true; that was all I said; I did not think I should be brought here upon it, or I might have been very apt to deny it.

Would you willingly have concealed it? I concealed it from the beginning, it was not a public thing; certainly any thing which ought to be private, I have sense enough to keep as such. I believe Mr. Knight spoke of it himself— it had got round.

Who were those other persons that you spoke to of it, besides Mr. Wardle? A few of my friends, I do not recollect who; I am not without friends.

How came you to mention to a few of your friends, whom you cannot recollect, a transaction which you say ought to have been kept secret, and which you think came forward only from Mr. Knight's mentioning it? I did not say that I mentioned it, I said that my friends mentioned it, and that then I said it was ail very true.

When you mentioned this transaction to col. Wardle, did you give the same account of it which you have given to-day? No, I did not. Which was the true account? Both.

In what did the two accounts differ? I do not see that they differ at all; I did not enter so into detail as I do now.

Was the difference between your accounts, that you were shorter in the account you gave to col. Wardle, than in the account you have given to-day? Considerably.

Can you recollect the day on which Dr. Thynne applied to you? The day of the month or the day of the week?

Either? I do not, it was such a trifling affair.

Cannot you tax your recollection upon either one or the other? Not upon such a trifling occasion.

Have you not told col. Wardle on what day Dr. Thynne applied to you? No, I have not.

Did not you tell col. Wardle that the application was made to you on Thursday, and that it was gazetted on the Saturday? No, I did not; I might as well have said Tuesday as Thursday, I do not recollect any thing about days or dates.

Have you told the house now all that you told col. Wardle upon the subject? I have answered that before? I have told the house more than I have told him a great deal; I told them that I did not go into detail with him, and I have with the house.

Have you told the house every thing that you mentioned to him? Upon what subject?

Upon this subject? Yes, I have, and a great deal more.

What have you told the house to-day, which you have not told col. Wardle? I mentioned it but slightly to him, and I have told every thing here that I recollect, except a slight conversation between h. r. h. and myself, which I suppose it is not necessary to repeat.

On the requisition of Mr. Brand, the witness was ordered to withdraw, and the hon. gentleman then stated, that the tendency of the Attorney General's questions was to impeach the veracity of Mr. Wardle, which he did not consider a fair course of procedure towards his hon. friend.

The Attorney General

denied that such was by any means his intention. Whatever questions he had felt it his duty to put to the witness was with the sole view of impeaching her veracity alone, and he trusted what he had said, and what he would say, would convince the house of her whole story being a malicious fabrication, and not entitled to any credit. He was far from thinking that any thing he could say to expose her falsehoods could in the least affect the veracity of Mr. Wardle, and nothing could be farther from his intention.— The witness was then called in and re-examined.

(By the Attorney General.)

What circumstances have you mentioned to the house relative to this transaction, which you did not mention to col. Wardle? I did not mention to col. Wardle that I shewed the note to h. r. h. nor did I tell him that h. r. h. got change for it; it was for me that he got change, he was going out of town at one o'clock, and I at four, and I wanted the change, to leave some with my servants in town, and some I wanted with me. I did not enter into that detail with col. Wardle.

Is that the only circumstance that you have mentioned to the house and did not mention to col. Wardle? No, it is not.

State the other circumstances which you did not mention to col. Wardle.— I did not say much to col. Wardle at all, it was very trifling what I mentioned to him: he had heard it from other quarters, and asked me if it was true, and I said yes.

Had you any intention to have mentioned this, if col. Wardle had not asked you? It was in conversation it was mentioned.

Should you have mentioned this to col. Wardle, if he had not mentioned it to you? Perhaps I might, and perhaps I might not.

Had you any object in mentioning it either to him or to any other person? None, whatever.

Had you any end to accomplish by making this known? Certainly not.

Have you ever stated, that you had any ground of complaint against h. r. h.? All my friends know that I have.

Have you ever stated to any one, that you had grounds of complaint against h. r. h.? To many I have stated it.

Have you not stated, that if h. r. h. did not comply with your demands, you would expose him I told Mr. W. Adam, in a letter, that if he did not folfil his promises, and the Duke's, by paying me the annuity, for which Mr. Adam was the guarantee, and which Mr. Adam promised me should be regularly and punctually paid me, that I should be necessitated to expose h. r. h.'s letters; that was all.

Have you never said that if h. r. h. did not come to your terms, you would expose him? No, never in my life.

Never to any one? Never to any one whatever; nor is it willing at all in me now, I was very angry in that letter, and perhaps Mr. Adam will produce it: that goes to the worst part that ever I said or acted.

Is it only in one letter that you have threatened to expose h. r. h.? Two I have written to Mr. Adam; that is all, to any one.

Were there threats in both the letters They are not threats: I solicited.

Did you say in those letters, that you would expose h. r. h.? Mr. Adam, I suppose, has the letters; and, if he is in the house, will perhaps produce them.

Did you accompany your solicitations by saving, that if they were not complied with, you would expose the Duke? I do not recol- lect that I did, but you bad better ask for the letters.

Did you never make any declaration of that sort to any other person? No, never.

Did you never state to any other person, that if your terms were not complied with, you would expose the Duke, or use any terms to that effect? I have told you before, I did not.

Are you quite certain of that? Yes, quite.

Did you ever tell Mr. Wardle that you wanted this 200l. for a particular purpose? No, I did not.

Did you not say to Mr. R. Knight, that if h. r. h. did not come into your terms, you would expose him? No, I did not.

Did you ever say any thing to that effect to Mr. R. Knight? No, I did not: I told him I was going to publish the Duke's letters, to pay the creditors, which h. r. h. had refused. R. r. h. had insisted, that I should plead my marriage to avoid the debts or that I might go to prison; that was his last message to me.

When was that message sent? I should think six weeks or two months since; my lawyer can tell, the message went to him.

Who is your lawyer? Mr. Comrie was my lawyer.

Who was your lawyer then? Mr. Stokes, who lives in Golden-square.

He was your lawyer when that message was sent? He received the message and came with it to me.

Who carried the message to him? A man in the employ of Mr. W. Adam, a sort of lawyer.

Did Mr. Knight come voluntarily to you, or did you. send for him? I was in the habit bf writing to Mr. K., since we had been intimate, after the affair of his brother. I wrote him one or two letters, and told him where I lived, and told him to call when he came to town; I dare say he has the letters, which will resolve the question at once.

Did you not write to him, to desire him to come, particularly upon the occasion when you told him you should publish the Duke's letters? No, certainly, I did not.

Did you not send to him, to desire that he would call upon you, and when he came, tell him, that you intended to publish the Duke's letters? I must refer you to the letters; it was only a common sort of letter that I am in the habit perhaps of writing to many more gentlemen, besides Mr. K.

Yon have mentioned, that you were advised to plead your marriage; are you married? It is of no consequence at all about my husband, that has nothing to do with it; Mr. Adam can tell who I am.

Are yon a married woman or not? You have no reason to doubt it. [The Witness was informed by the Chairman, that she must give a direct answer to the question.] I am a married woman; there is no question which I will not answer, though it may be unpleasant.

How long have you been married? I refer you to Mr. W. Adam, he has my certificate. [The Chairman informed the Witness she must give a direct answer to the question.]

How long have you been married? I believe 14 or 15 years.

Is your husband living? I do not know.

Have you not sworn yourself to be a widow? His royal highness, a very short time since, when I sent to him to ask him to send me a lew hundred pounds, sent me word, that ill dare speak against him, or write against him, he would put me into the pillory, or into the Bas-tile. He fancies that I swore myself to be a widow woman when I was examined at a Court Martial. But the Deputy Judge Advocate had more feeling than the gentleman who has examined me now; he told me I might say any thing out of the Court which it might, he unpleasant to me to swear to; I told him it would be very improper for me to say that I was a married woman, when I had been known to be living with the D. of Y. I did not swear that I was a widow, I said it out of Court, and it was put into the Court Martial Minutes as if I had sworn to it, but it was not so. The Judge Advocate, to whom I told it, is at the door, and I think he had better be called in. I know now what he is come for.

Who brought that message from the Duke to you? A very particular friend of the D. of Y.s. (a lapgh.)

Who? One Taylor, a shoemaker in Bond-street; very well known to Mr. Adam.

By whom did you send the request to the Duke for these few hundreds to which the Duke sent this answer by Taylor? By my own pen.

How did you send the letter? By this Ambassador of Morocco, (a laugh.)

What do you mean by this Ambassador of Morocco? The ladies shoemaker.

Was it a verbal answer that was brought to you, or a letter? A verbal answer, in Mr. Taylor's own language or the Duke's; I do not know which it was exactly, but those were the words that passed.

What is your husband's name? Clarke.

What is his Christian name? Joseph, I believe.

Where were you married to him? At Pan-eras; Mr. A. can tell you. [The Chairman stated to the Witness, that he felt it his duty to inform her, that her manner of giving her answers, was extremely indecent, and unbecoming the dignity of the House: and that, it persevered in, it would call for a Tory heavy censure.]

Have you not said, that you were married at Berkhampstead? I did when I was laughing at Mr. A.

Did you not persevere in that story over and over again? No, I did not, I merely laughed at it.

Was it true or not, that you were married at Berkhampstead? I tell you I told it him laughing; and I told the Duke I was making a tool of him when I said that; for which h. r. h. said he was very sorry, for that he was entirely in Mr. A.'s clutches.

Did you make Mr. A. believe that you were married at Berkhampstead? I do not know what I made him believe.

Did you not find, from subsequent conversations with Mr. A., that he had believed it, and acted upon it in some enquiries that he had made? He set a man of the name of Wilkinson to make some enquiries respecting me; so h. r. h. wrote me ill a letter; hut I believe that Mr. A., nor no one, will go to say there was anything improper in my conduct during the time I was undo the Duke's protection: nor will h. r. h. believe it, I am certain.

Did you not represent your husband as a nephew of Mr. Alderman Clarke? He told me he was.

Did you believe that your husband was a nephew of Mr. Alderman C.? Yes, t did; he told me so.

Did you ever see Mr. Alderman C.? I never saw any of Mr. Clarke's relations, but two of his brothers, and his sister; I have seen the Alderman sometimes about, as any body else might have seen him.

Do you now believe that your husband is the nephew of Alderman C.? I have never taken any pains to ask any thing concerning him, as I have quitted him; he is nothing; to me, nor I to him; nor have I seen him nearly these three years, nor heard of him since he brought an action against the Duke, or threatened; I saw him about a mouth before that.

What is your husband? He is nothing—but a man.

What business? No business.

Was he never any business? No, his father was a builder: he lives at Kettering, in North-amptoushire.

Was not he a stone-mason? No, he was not; he lives at Kettering with his younger brother, who was brought up at Cambridge, and his brother's wife; that is all I know of him.

Did you ever live in Tavistock-place? Yes, I did.

When did you live there? I do not recollect; I lived there with my mother.

How many years ago? I do not recollect. When did you go to Gloucester-place? I do not recollect; I was with the Duke, in Park-lane, before.

When did you go to Park-lane? I do not recollect.

How long was it before you went to Park-lane, that you were in Tavistock-place? I do not recollect.

Did you live at any other place between the time of your living in Tavistock-place and in Park-lane? I do not know; the Duke knows if I did; T might have gone to some of his houses; I do not know.

How lung did you live in Tavistock-place? I do not recollect; I did not live long there; I was backwards and forwards.

Was not that before you knew the Duke? No, it was not.

Where did you live when first you knew the Duke? You will excuse me if I do not men- tion it. [The Chairman informed the Witness she must answer the question.] I do not recollect.

if you do not recollect, why did you desire to be excused from answering the question? Because I do not recollect it.

Was your only reason for desiring to be excused from answering the question, that you do not recollect it? Yes; because it would be seeming as if I could not answer many of the questions you put to me: I wish to be very fair and very honest.

Recollect yourself, and say positively whether you did not live in Tavistock-place before you knew the Duke? I knew the Duke many years before that. I do not think it is a fair question at all to put to me; you hear that I am a married woman, and I have a family of children, and I have a daughter grown up.

Did you not live in Tavistock-place before you were under the Duke's protection, as you expressed yourself? I was under his protection; I might have lived there: I lived under his protection there.

Do you mean to say, you were under his protection when first you went to Tavistock-place? No; I was under my mother's; but I knew him before.

Did you not live in Tavistock-place as a widow; did you not represent yourself as a widow? No, never at any place whatever; but at that court-martial lately I did; I thought it was saving myself and my family something: and I thought it was saving h. r. h. likewise, its tie was married also.

Do you mean to say that you never lived in Tavistock-place till you were under the protection of the Duke? No; I say I was there with my mother and my children; I knew h. r. h. previous to that, but I did not live with him.

Did you not represent to the trades-people who furnished your house there, that you were a widow? Never to any one whatever.

Have you not threatened the Duke, that if he would not come into the terms you proposed, and pay you what you required of him, you would put the letters into the hands of persons who would pay you? Would pay me what?

That which you required the Duke to pay you? What is that? will you be so good as to state what I wanted him to do.

Have you not stated, that you had put upon paper, or would put upon paper, the transactions for the last 14 or 15 years, and that if ha did not comply with your demand, that you would put that memoir into the hands of persons who would publish it? No, I have not; I cannot recollect what I said, but I must beg for the letter, and that will convince at once.

You have stated, that you Have mentioned this transaction to some other persons besides col. Wardle; who are those persons? Indeed I do not recollect; my acquaintances; it might have been in a slight sort of way; I did not make a talk of it myself.

How long ago was it that you first mentioned it to Col. Wardle? That must have been since I wrote that letter to Mr. Adam; I did not know col. Wardle at that time: Mr. Adam sent a messenger to me, but I would not see him.

Who has been present beside? col. Wardle, when you have ever mentioned this transaction to him? I do not know of any body but my children, or a young lady now and then; nobody of any consequence—no man.

To what man have you ever mentioned this, except to col. Wardle? To many gentlemen; to my acquaintances; I do not recollect; I do not know.

Do you know major Hogan? Not at all; I never saw him in my life, nor ever heard of him till I read a pamphlet. Mr. Greenwood sent a message a little time since by this same man, Taylor, to say that he was very sorry to hear that I was acquainted with a Mr. Finnerty. I never saw the man in my life. I believe about eight or nine years ago, at Margate, they said there was some newspaper men there, and he was there; that is all that I know. I never saw him since. And there is another man who writes, who says he is very intimate with me; I never saw him but once, and that was when h. r. h. was with me: that was at my mother's.

(By Mr. Croker.)

Do you recollect the particulars of the last conversation which you had with Mr. R. Knight? Yes; he asked me who bad taken the house I was in, and if the Duke and I were upon intimate terms now; it was a sort of general conversation; and then the Subject of the letters came up, and he asked me whether h. r. h. had paid me my annuity; I told him no; that h. r. h. had not taken any further notice of me nor of the debts; that he had forgotten the annuity, and indeed that he had sent me word that he had never made any; that the trades-people were daily harrassing me for the debts I had run into when I was under his protection, and it was impossible for me to plead my marriage to them all, the people not being contented, and that I would publish his letters, and give the money among the trades-people. Mr. R. Knight then desired me, if I was going to publish any sort of memoir, that I would be sure to spare his brother. That was the heads of the conversation that passed between us.

Was there any other notice taken, in that conversation, of the business that is at present under discussion, except Mr. R. Knight requesting you generally to spare his brother? No, certainly not.

Did you make any inquiries of Mr. R. Knight, concerning the business now under discussion? Mr. Knight told me, I believe, as well as I can recollect: "Ah, by the bye, you got very well over the difficulty that my brother could not;" and then I asked him the name of the other man, but I knew it before, and what sort of looking man he was; he said he was an Irishman.

I understand you to have said, in the former part of your examination, that col. Wardle had mentioned the circumstances to you; and that; all the information you had given to him, was generally, that the circumstances he had SO mentioned, were true: do you still abide by that answer? Yes.

Have you ever had any more than one conversation with col. Wardle upon this matter under discussion? No, I have not; and I hope I shall never hear of it any more.

Are you in the habit of seeing col. Wardle, or have you seen him more frequently than that occasion when he came to inquire into those circumstances? O dear, yes.

Do you recollect how long ago it was that that conversation relating to this business took place between you and col. Wardle? I have said before, it could not have been long since.

Has the only conversation you had with col. Wardle, upon this subject, taken place within these three days? No.

Has it taken place since Friday last? Indeed I do not know; I do not recollect: I do not think that it has.

Did that conversation take place since Friday last? No; to the best of my recollection not.

Did you see col. Wardle on Saturday last? I see him very often; I think I saw him at the Opera on Saturday.

Did you see him any where else but at the Opera on Saturday? lie frequently calls upon me.

Did you know, and when did yon know, that col. Wardle had, in this house, stated the present transaction, and mentioned his intention of calling upon you as a witness? When. I saw the newspaper. He called upon me soon afterwards, and I certainly was very angry with him; and we had some words, as he had made very free with a friend's name of mine, Mr. Donovan, without my authority, depreciating his services and abilities. Mr. Donovan has been wounded in the service of his country, and has not been in bed for these 20 years; and he is only a lieutenant in some garrison battalion. Mr. Wardle, one morning when he was calling upon me, took a parcel of letters away from me without my giving him my sanction: and that has led more to the business than any thing, and I have never been able to get them back since. He laughed it off, saying, that he should get into my love-secrets. They were letters between friends and myself.

Do you not now recollect, that it was on Saturday last that you saw the newspaper that gave you this information? I do not recollect the day at all.

Did you not see col. Wardle on Saturday last? I see him almost every day; sometimes every other day, or twice a week—I do not recollect—I dare say I did—I am in the habits of seeing him often; but I did not know he was going to bring this thing forward; and I told him I would get out of town; and he told me, that if they caught me airy where they would put me in prison, and I must not show contempt to a summons from the house of commons.

Did you see col. Wardle yesterday? I think I did.

Have you any doubt; are you not certain that you saw him yesterday? No, I did not see him yesterday.

Are you certain now that you did not see him yesterday? I think that I am; I do not think I was at home all day.

Did you see col. Wardle on the forenoon of this day? Yes, f did, two or three times.

Do you still adhere to your former answer, that you have not, within these three days or since Friday last, had any conversation with Col. Wardle, relative to the subject at present under discussion? To day he told me that I must come here and obey that summons; and one day last week, a few days ago, he told me I must abide by what be bad done, and speak the truth, and if I did not the house would commit me for contempt; that if I prevaricated at all, and did not speak the truth, the house would commit me, and send me where they had sent some sheriffs before.

You have stated, that h. r. h. the Commander in Chief must have known you had received a pecuniary compliment for the service you had done to col. Knight, because he had seen a note; did you shew the Commander in Chief that note before or at any other time, except when you asked him to exchange it for your own convenience, for the distribution of money among your servants? I shewed it him after dinner one day, when I was going out of town in the morning, and h. r. h. at night: I never shewed it him, but that once, and it was changed on that night.

By when was the message concerning Finnerty conveyed? By Taylor; be told me that he bad just left Mr. Greenwood, who had been just reading one of Slogan's pamphlets to him, and that Mr. Greenwood told him that he had been told by several people, that I was concerned with all the pamphlet writers, and among the rest, was very intimate with one Finnerty, which I denied, as I do now.

Soon after you bad received the 200l. Mr. R. Knight and Mr. Biddulph called upon you? Yes, I do not know exactly how soon alter. I went out of town the night after I had received the 200l. and staid perhaps a fortnight or three weeks, and they called after that time. He introduced Mr. Biddulph to me.

Did Mr. H. Knight, after that, ever call upon you alone at any time, soon after you had received the 200l.? Many times alone.

Did you ever at any time, in conversation with Mr. It. Knight, cither when Mr. R. Knight was alone with you, or when any person was with you, ever say to him, that you were desirous that the transaction that had happened should be concealed from h. r. h.? Never in my life; I never said that, and I have so stated before.

Then, if any body has ever said that you said so, that accusation is false? Certainly

(By Lord Folkestone.)

You have stated, that you sent the Gazette, containing the exchange which took place, in a note to Dr. T.; do you recollect what was said in that note? No, I do not; very little, I dare say, as I sent the Gazette with the note.

You have likewise stated, that the 200l. was brought to you in a note, with Dr. T.'s compliments; are you certain as to that fact? Yes, I think I can say positively to that, because I told my own maid to co down and give the man who brought the letter a guinea.

Was the compliments a verbal message, or inserted in the note? I am certain the note was inclosed in an envelope; I never recollected to speak certain as to there being a note on the paper, because I thought there was a finish of the thing, and that nobody would ever call upon me about it, but I think I read Dr. T.'s compliments.

Do you know who brought that note to your house? No, it was a man servant, and I considered it to be Dr. T.'s servant, as he had spoken to me.

Do you recollect at what time of day it was received? In the middle of the day.

You have stated in a former part of your examination, that the exchange was effected within a very few days alter the application was made for the exchange; do you allude to the application made by Dr. T. to you, or the application made by you to the Commander in Chief? I spoke to h. r. h. the same day at dinner.

And the exchange was effected within a few days? Yes, two or three days.

Do you recollect how soon after that it appeared in the Gazette? The same day as it was effected it was in the Gazette.

Had you any reason to desire to conceal from the Commander in Chief Mr. R. Knight's visits to you; did you ever desire him to conceal his visits from the Commander in Chief? I never concealed his visits, or those of any gentleman who ever visited me, from the Commander in Chief.

(By the Chancellor of the Exchequer.)

Were those letters you referred to, taken away before the time that col. Wardle had the conversation first with you upon the subject of this inquiry? Yes, I should think they were, because it is some time since.

Do you recollect how long since? No, I do not; but there was nothing of Mr. Knight's business in those letters.

Had you any conversation with col. Wardle, upon the su1ject of thrive letters, before he took them away? No, I bad not.

How happened they to be lying in his way? Because I was looking over my papers, going into a new house: I bad removed from my mother's in Bedford-place, to West bourn-place, and he took up those Utters, and said he would take away the packet of love-letters; and he ran away with them.

Do yon mean seriously to state that col. Wardle took away those letters without your leave, and without your authority? Yes, he did; but he had run away with many others, which I suppose had induced him to take those nonsensical little notes he had run away with before, and then he told me he would give me those back again, if I wished it; that they were on a different subject to what he imagined them to be; that he was very sorry for it; but he should take care to read them before he gave them me back.

Were those letters, letters from h. r. h. to you? No, there might have been one or two of his interspersed; but they were Mr. Donovan's letters, and others.

Do you mean to say they were not the D. of Y.'s letters that were taken away by Mr. Wardle? No, they were not; he has not let me see them once.

How came you to state, that the greatest part of this business has principally been occasioned by those letters having got into the possession of col. Wardle? Because he has read them.

Whose were those letters, that he had read, which led to this inquiry? There are more letters than I could really mention or recollect; they are from different friends of mine, and on different subjects, which I suppose led him to make such free use of Mr. Donovan's name.

Do you recollect ever having been offered any money for the delivery of any letters from h. r. h., or from Mr. Donovan? Never.

Did you ever place any letters in the hands of any body, with intent to forward and facilitate any negotiation of your own? No, I have not.

Have you never so said to, any body? Except to Mr. Adam, who was the confidential friend of h. r. h.

Have you never stated, that you had put letters in the hands of any one, for the purpose of facilitating some negociation of your own? No, I have not, except that once or twice that I wrote to Mr. Adam, I never did nor never said it to any one.

Have you ever in point of fact, put any letter into the hands of any one, for the purpose of facilitating any negociation of your's? No, I? have not.

Have you never written to any one, to say that you had so done? To no one but Mr. Adam.

What is the name of the Deputy Judge Advocate, to whom you have referred? His name is Sutton.

At the time when you received the 200l. was the D.of Y. present in the room? No, he was not.

How soon afterwards did you state to the D. of Y., that Mr. K night had fulfilled his promise? The same day.

Was it on the same day that you desired h. r. h. to get that note changed for you? I did nor desire h. r. h. to get it changed for me; he wished it himself, as I could not do it.

What was the name of the servant by whom that note was changed? I do not know, I am sure; it is a very unusual thing to ask servants their names.

Mr. Beresford

said, in explanation, that he had put a question to the hon. gent, opposite him, from having observed him leave the house, and, on his return, proceed to a course of examination, in which he appeared to put answers in the witness's mouth. He did not suspect the hon. gent, of any bad intention, and firmly believed, that his disavowal of such intention was sincere.

Mr. Wardle

said, that from the moment he left the room, he never asked the witness a question respecting this business, nor had the slightest intention of it.

Mr. Whitbread

stated, that it was in the recollection of the Committee, most probably, that the account which his hon. friend had given of his conversation with the witness, was merely an answer to her question, who was then examining.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

asked if there were other witnesses to be produced? and Mr. Wardle declared himself satisfied to let his case rest there.