§ Mr. Sheridanrose, and spoke as follows:—"Mr. Speaker; however I may regret that the proposition which I had the honour of giving notice that it was my intention to bring forward this evening, has been postponed until this late hour, and that the attention of the house must be considerably exhausted by the discussion which has just terminated, yet, sir, I still think it right to submit to their consideration, the important subject which was the object of that notice. I cannot conceal that a kind of negociation has been carrying on between my right hon. friend opposite (Mr. Canning) and myself, in the course of which, my right hon. friend expressed his wish that I would put off my motion for this evening, because I the distinguished persons who have lately come over to England to represent to the British government the state and disposition of their native country, are at this very moment partaking of the hospitalities of his mansion. Sir, I allow that this was a strong reason on the part of my right hon. friend for desiring a postponement of this business; for I believe, with all my right hon. friend's public spirit and enthusiasm, that he has no very great inclination to lose a good dinner. But as my right hon. friend has detached a very able gene- 887 ral (sir Arthur Wellesley) to represent him at his house, I feel less reluctant at thus intruding on his patience, and shall therefore proceed, only expressing my hope, that that gallant officer may soon be detached on a more serious service; that he may soon be sent into Spain to represent in that country the enthusiasm of England in her cause. In the first place, sir, I wish to correct an idea which has gone abroad, that I entertained the folly, the presumption, the ill-judgment, and the bad taste of wishing to teach his majesty's ministers how to conduct themselves in the existing circumstances. All I desire, sir, is to win the attention of the house to the present situation of Spain. Having communicated the tenor of my motion on a former evening to my right hon. friend opposite, and my intention not having been disapproved by my right hon. friend, I own I was surprised to find that his right hon. and learned colleague imagined that my motion would tend to embarrass his majesty's government. After the communication to which I have alluded, I expected that he would give me credit for having no such object in view. On the other hand, I experienced something like rebuke from my hon. friend near me (Mr. Whitbread), who seemed to think that I was going to bring forward a motion which was to save administration from all responsibility on the subject. Now really, sir, this was a most unfortunate outset on my part. I meant to do neither the one thing nor the other. And here I must say, that although no man living more highly respects the political probity and ability of my hon. friend, as well as the estimable qualities of his private character, yet when he gets up to rebuke me for doing that which appears to me to be my duty, I am free to confess, while I applaud his judgment—his understanding—the deliberation with which he decides on questions of importance—that if there be any one point in his character on which I should not be disposed to dwell with the greatest satisfaction, it would be his deference to the opinions of others, or his doubt with respect to his own. I am placed, sir, in this dilemma; that while my hon. friend accuses me of a disposition to cover administration, the right hon. and learned chancellor of the exchequer suspects me of an intention to do it all the mischief in my power. Sir, I may be wrong; I am far from wishing ministers to embark in any cash and romantic enterprise in favour of 888 Spain; but, sir, if the enthusiasm and animation, which now exists in a part of Spain, should spread over the whole of that country, I am convinced that since the first burst of the French revolution, there never existed so happy an opportunity for Great Britain to strike a bold stroke for the rescue of the world. But, sir, it is said, 'if you do not distrust the administration, why discuss this subject in parliament!' Sir, I will tell you why. I am disposed to trust administration. But I wish to demand two things: I wish first to declare, that, in my opinion, we must not deal in dribblets; we must do much or nothing. Why do I make this declaration? Because no cabinet which has hitherto existed in this country—not even excepting that with which I had the honour of being connected —has pursued simply and plainly one clear and distinct object. Instead of striking at the core of the evil, the administrations of this country have hitherto contented themselves with nibbling at the rind. In this censure, I must not include an hon. friend near me, nor Mr. Burke. They would have proceeded directly and completely to the object which they had in view, or they would not have advanced to it a step. But with these exceptions, the ministers of England have pursued a petty policy; they have gone about filching sugar islands, and neglecting all that was dignified and all that was consonant to the truly understood interests of their country. I wish therefore, sir, to let Spain know, that the conduct which we have pursued we will not persevere in, but that we are resolved fairly and fully to stand up for the salvation of Europe. The next demand I have to make, sir, is, that if a co-operation with Spain be expedient, it should be an effectual co-operation. I repeat, that I am far from prompting his majesty's government to engage in any rash romantic enterprise; but, if upon ascertaining the state of the popular mind in Spain, they find it is warmed by a patriotic and enthusiastic ardour, then, sir, all I ask is, that that feeling should be met here with corresponding energy and enthusiasm. Bonaparte has hitherto run a most victorious race. Hitherto he has had to contend against princes without dignity, and ministers without wisdom. He has fought against countries in which the people have been indifferent as to his success; he has yet to learn what it is to-fight against a country in which the people are animated with one spirit to resist 889 him. So far, sir, from bringing forward a motion prematurely to embarrass his majesty's government, I solemnly declare, that, if the opportunity to which I have alluded of a vigorous interference on the part of England should arise, the present administration shall have from me as cordial and as sincere a support as if the man whom I most loved were restored to life and power. Is this a vain discussion? Let those who think so look at the present state of Europe. Will not the animation of the Spanish mind be excited by the knowledge that their cause is espoused, not by ministers alone, but by the parliament and the people of England? If there be a disposition in Spain to resent the insults and injuries, too enormous to be described by language, which they have endured from the tyrant of the earth, will not that disposition be roused to the most sublime exertion, by the assurance that their efforts will be cordially aided by a great and powerful nation? Sir, I think this a most important crisis. Never was any thing so brave, so generous, so noble, as the conduct of the Asturians. They have magnanimously avowed their hostility to France, they have declared war against Bonaparte; they have no retreat; they are resolved to conquer, or to perish in the grave of the honour and the independence of their country. It is that the British government may advance to their assistance with a firmer step, and with a bolder mien, that I have been anxious to afford this opportunity to the British parliament, of expressing the feelings which they entertain on the occasion. I move, sir, "That an humble Address be presented to his majesty, that he will be graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before this house, copies of such Proclamations as have been received by his majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and which have been issued since the arrival of the French army at Madrid; whether by the Spanish Government, the French Commander in Chief, or by persons since claiming to act on behalf of the Spanish nation."
Mr. Secretary Canningreplied nearly as follows:—Mr. Speaker, I am disposed to give every credit to my right hon. friend for his motives in agitating this subject, and I can assure him, that he is very much mistaken if he imagines that it was intended to check or rebuke him, by any thing that was said on a recent evening from this side of the house. At that time al- 890 though I was in possession of my right hon. friend's communication, my right hon. friend near me was not so. Sir, I could very easily shew my right hon. friend that it is impossible to produce the papers for which he has moved; some, because they have not reached his majesty's government in an authenticated form; others, because they are not accurately described in the motion; and all, because if we were in possession of the information which they contain, it would be highly improvident in us at the present moment, to communicate that information to the world. While I state this, however, sir, I hope my right hon. friend will not misunderstand me so much as to suppose that I impute to him any blame for this proceeding, or that I undervalue the pledge which he has given us of his support in any plan of active operations which it may be deemed advisable to adopt with respect to Spain; the more especially when it is considered that in that pledge may be implied the support of those persons with whom my right hon. friend is accustomed to act in parliament, and of whose body he is so eminent and distinguished a member. Sir, I should have been far from charging my right hon. friend with blame, even had he gone so far as to chalk out to his majesty's ministers the line of conduct that in his opinion it would be expedient for them to pursue. From this he has abstained. Indisposed as I should have been to censure my right hon. friend, had he proceeded to that extent, I cannot but feel that his speech, moderate as it has been, calls for such a general disclosure of the sentiments of his majesty's ministers as may be made without hazard, without a dishonourable compromise, and without exciting expectations which may never be realised. It is therefore, sir, I declare to the house and to the country, that his majesty's ministers see with as deep and lively an interest as my right hon. friend, the noble struggle which a part of the Spanish nation is now making to resist the unexampled atrocity of France, and to preserve the independence of their country; and that there exists the strongest disposition on the part of the British government to afford every practicable aid in a contest so magnanimous. In endeavouring to afford this aid, sir, it will never occur to us to consider that a state of war exists betwen Spain and Great Britain. We shall proceed upon the principle, that any nation of Europe that starts up with a determination to oppose a 891 power which, whether professing insidious peace or declaring open war, is the common enemy of all nations, whatever may be the existing political relations of that nation with Great Britain, becomes instantly our essential ally. In that event his majesty's ministers will have three objects in view. The first, to direct the united efforts of the two countries against the common foe; the second, to direct those efforts in a way which shall be most beneficial to the new ally; the third, to direct them in a manner conducive to peculiarly British interests. But, sir, of those objects, the last will be out of the question as compared with the other two. These are the sentiments with which his majesty's government are inspired. To the measures which these sentiments may dictate, they confidently look for the support of parliament and of the country. It cannot, sir, be expected that I should say whether we think the crisis arrived, or whether we anticipate its speedy approach, when the sentiments which I have described must be called into action. It is sufficient that I have stated what we feel, and what we intend. For the reasons, sir, which I hare before mentioned, I am compelled to dissent from my right hon. friend's motion.
Mr. Ponsonbyperfectly agreed with the right hon. gent. in the objections he had made to the motion of his right hon. friend, and early foresaw those objections. He thought there was much of the information sought for that they could not grant; and of the little they had, perhaps none that it would be prudent to communicate. In such circumstances, neither he, nor any man as ignorant upon the subject as he acknowledged himself to be, could attempt to advise his majesty's ministers what course to pursue, when their course was ultimately to be regulated by that information of which they were exclusively possessed. He therefore could not divine the object of the motion of his right hon. friend. He denied, for himself, that it would operate upon him as a pledge of his future opinions upon the conduct of his majesty's ministers in this important crisis; as, until he had witnessed it, he could not possibly judge of it.
§ Mr. Whitbread,as his right hon. friend had devoted the greater part of the exordium of his speech upon him, hoped he should be allowed to say a very few words. In the first place, his right hon. friend had mistaken him, when he had represented him as anxious to load ministers with all 892 the responsibility of acting in the present instance, and not willing to share in that responsibility. He had not expressed any such sentiment: but though his right hon. friend had done so much justice to his private probity, he had accused him of pertinacity. He should certainly, in the present instance, so far adhere to this pertinacity, that, as he had uniformly arraigned the measures of the present administration since they came into office, as he had uniformly distrusted and doubted them, he should not now begin to give them gratuitously his confidence upon a great and most important crisis. At the same time, he was positively against giving the information required. He had been often reproved as a man too prompt in calling for information: in the present case, he knew how to draw the line. It was, however, a topic of national feeling; and he was well aware, when his right hon. friend, like another Timotheus, seized the golden lyre, what an enthusiasm he would excite: but he doubted very much if such enthusiasm might not be productive of more harm than good, if prematurely called forth before the brave Spaniards were furnished with means of resisting their formidable foe. When he heard so much said, in the usual tone, of Buonaparte, calling him the merciless despot, severe tyrant, plunderer, common enemy of mankind, he wished from his heart that England could come into the cause with clean hands. He commented upon the third object of this country, in case of cooperation with Spain, and wished it had been altogether omitted; it was the narrow policy of subjecting the interests of the great cause in which they were engaged to the minor concerns of British objects, British views, and British interests exclusively.
Mr. Secretary Canningrose to explain a misconception which the hon. gent. seemed to feel, as to what he had stated respecting the objects to be prosecuted in the contest. He had mentioned British objects on that occasion, for the purpose only of disclaiming them as any part of the considerations which influenced his majesty's government. In this contest in which Spain, was embarked, no interest could be so purely British as Spanish success; no conquest so advantageous for G. Britain, as conquering from France the complete integrity of the dominions of Spain in every quarter of the world.
§ Mr. Whitbreadwas glad that he had 893 given the right hon. gent, the opportunity of making this explanation.
§ Mr. Windham,though there were many important topics belonging to this question, and arising out of the discussion as far as it had hitherto gone, did not mean to offer any observation upon them. He had then risen only to touch upon one or two particulars, which were more personal than any general reference to the general situation of the country; the one that it might not be misunderstood, and the other to rectify a mistake that might prevail respecting it. And here he must observe the gloomy prospect held up at the onset by the bad specimens of candour, openness, and ingenuousness, with which the right hon. gent, had endeavoured to construe the sentiments expressed by his right hon. friend, as pledging the whole of those who acted with him to a general support of the measures of administration. [A cry of No, from the treasury bench.] If not to their other measures, to those at least which might be connected with the object which his right hon. friend had in view. He had felt it necessary on his part to disclaim being included in any such pledge, and he hoped this construction of the right hon. gent. was not a specimen of the openness which the house was to expect in the progress of this transaction. The points upon which he wished to touch were, first, the advice which had been given by his right hon. friend to ministers, either to do a great deal, or to do nothing in this case. If his right hon. friend meant by doing a great deal, to send a large force to the assistance of Spain, he feared that we should not be able to do that. But it was not thence to be concluded that nothing was to be done. Though we could not assist them in the highest degree, it did not follow that we might not do what would be extremely serviceable to them. The part of his right hon. friend's sentiments in which he completely concurred, was that in which he recommended not to adopt the conduct that had been pursued in former wars since the commencement of the French revolution. It was his decided opinion, that we should not mix little British interests with this important question. He was happy to agree with his right hon. friend on this point; though he could not concur with him as to the alternative, or admit his conclusion, that if a great deal could not be done, nothing was to be done. The other point upon which he wished to touch, related to the 894 general censure which his right hon. friend had passed upon the conduct of all late administrations, he was ready to admit that this censure was just in general, but he denied that it would apply to the last administration, of which he had the honour of being a member. He defied any gentleman to prove one instance in which it would apply. If they could not show any such instance, they should receive his statement with more temper. He did not claim any praise for that administration, because it had not an opportunity of incurring the censure. He was anxious to urge as strongly as his right hon. friend the propriety of encouraging hopes for the restoration of Europe in that way alone in which they were likely to be realised. He had often been reproached for enthusiasm on this subject; but he trusted he should not be readily reproached again, inasmuch as his impressions, though late, had been adopted. It seemed now to be admitted, that the only way of overturning revolutionary despotism, was by aiding the internal means of a country with external co-operation. Now, there was nothing external but England; it was Buonaparte and France every where beside, and those who would not take to the pinnace or the long-boat in the late storm, were' now-glad to catch at any broken oar, or fragment of a plank. When Europe was unsubdued; when Austria was entire; when Prussia was a formidable military power; when Italy was not yet parcelled out; and Spain itself was whole; the internal state of la Vendee held out the fairest hope of arresting the progress of the revolution. What then had been neglected, was now looked up to with sanguine expectation; and the only hope now was, that this insurrection in Spain, might prove a la Vendée. Here he should recur to the expectation, or rather deprecation of his right hon. friend, that we should mix no little interests in the contest, but conduct it on the principles stated by the right hon. gent, in his second speech. We should remember how great an arrear we had to settle, how much Spain had to forget in consequence of the outrage which she sustained in the capture of her frigates. Were they prepared to restore them, and prove to Spain the disinterestedness with which we were to embark in her cause? As to the advantage or disadvantage of bringing this motion forward at this time, he owned he did not agree wish the sentiments of his right hon. friend. He 895 thought that a demonstration of the disposition to promote the cause of Spain made to that house, to the country, and to the Spanish nation, might be productive of advantage. But though he felt this impression, it was still to be apprehended, that such a demonstration might have the effect of influencing the Spanish nation to its ruin. He had no objection however, to the expression of a disposition on the part of the country, to support all rational measures that might be necessary to aid the efforts of the Spanish people.
Lord Castlereaghobserved, that enough had been said as to the discussion of the motion, in what had fallen from the right hon. gent, who brought it forward, and from his right hon. friend who followed him; yet certain topics had been touched upon by other gentlemen in the course of the debate, which rendered it impossible for him to pass them over without observation. Undoubtedly, a difference of opinion might exist as to the propriety of bringing forward the motion; but of this he was convinced, that in the view which the right hon. gent, had taken of the subject, no mischief could possibly arise from the discussion. He did not press any proposition upon his majesty's ministers which required any improper disclosure. It had been brought forward by a right hon. gent., who, on all occasions of difficulty, in every crisis of the country, waving all political hostility, had uniformly come forward in support of the country. The hon. gentlemen opposite were, unquestionably, not pledged by the sentiments expressed by that right hon. gent, to a general support of government. It was not an irrational pledge of that description to which his right hon. friend had adverted, and, if the gentlemen on the other side were not disposed to concur in the feelings and sentiments of that right hon. gent., if they felt not a disposition to assist the Spanish nation on this opening for resistance to the tyranny of France, they certainly were at liberty to pursue what cause they might deem most expedient. But on this, as on every former occasion, they seemed in language to have disowned the right hon. gent, who had from such laudable motives brought forward this question. The house and the country would not fail to contrast the tone of that right hon. gent.'s speech with the chilling language of the hon. gentlemen on the bench with him.—He had to regret the course of the observations pursued by the right hon. 896 gent, who spoke last in the latter part of his speech, in bringing forward some topics between the two nations, at a time when the co-operation of both was necessary for the salvation of the world. It was not a course which any true patriotism would recommend at such a time, to remind that nation that England was the power to oppress it by the plunder of its frigates, and this, too, when the object of the right hon. gent, was to disclaim any pledge to support the contest. Then, again, the right hon. gent, had adverted to all the topics of the last fifteen years, and certainly it was not with a good grace that such condemnation came from that right hon. gent., who had been so long during that period in office. But no gentleman was more ready to condemn any principle, which he might have once entertained; and it appeared that he was always in opposition to all the governments of which he had been a member, though he generally remained in office to the last. Surely, when the right hon. gent, stated, that no British objects were to be prosecuted in this contests he could not mean to contend that objects of British interest, which might not be connected with Spanish objects, should not be attended to; at any rate, it was not for that right hon. gent, to maintain such a doctrine; he who had sent out a force to Alexandria, who had diverted a considerable part of the forces of the empire to Buenos Ayres, and who had even dispatched an expedition to the other side of South America, for the purpose of supporting the cause of Europe by an attack upon the back of Spanish America. It was rather strange that the right hon. gent, should be so fond of returning to the charge of ship-stealing, when he had himself sent a fleet to Constantinople, not to support the Russians, but to bring away the Turkish fleet, whilst the troops which were necessary for the success of the expedition had been sent, not to Constantinople, but Alexandria. That right hon. gent., too, had dispatched another expedition to Lisbon, the only force he had employed in Europe, and for the purpose of bringing away the Portuguese fleet. He could assure the right hon. gent., that the present administration in the conduct they should adopt, would not follow his practical example, but act upon the result of their best and soundest judgment in adopting such measures as might, under all the circumstances of the case, be most conducive to the great and important ob- 897 ject which they had in view. As to what had been said respecting the extent of the assistance to be afforded, he was aware of the justice of what had fallen from the right hon. gent, who had brought forward the motion, and if the occasion should arise, he could assure that right hon. gent., the country was in a situation to afford effectual assistance. When he considered the contrast between the patriotic sentiments of that right hon. gent, and the language of those around him, who were disposed to throw worse than cold water upon the hopes of the retrieval of Europe, he was sorry to see him sit amongst them, but he was confident that the country would do justice to that right hon. gentleman.
§ Earl Templeregretted that the discussion had taken place, and was sorry for the manner in which the question had been discussed. However important the lesson of his noble friend as to recrimination, and the consistency of remaining in a government with which he differed, he must regret that the people of Spain, who looked to this country for support, should find that this question had been made a ground of recrimination by gentlemen on both sides of the house. He hoped that the principle stated by his right hon. friend, of considering any power that should be at war with France as in alliance with us, would not be acted upon to the full extent. He thought that they should not be considered as our allies any longer than whilst they would fight with us to obtain a secure and honourable peace.
Mr. Secretary Canningagain explained. He had been misunderstood by his noble friend, if he had supposed him to have stated the principle to that extent. He had intended expressly to say, that we should consider all powers embarked in hostility with France as our allies, engaged in a common object for the attainment of a safe and honourable peace, and not for purposes of perpetual war.
§ Earl Templewas glad he had given his right hon. friend an opportunity of making this satisfactory explanation.
§ Mr. Sheridandid not feel it necessary to reply. His object was to awaken the country to the opportunity which, if the information from Spain was true, might lead to the rescue of Europe, and to the release of oppressed countries from the grasp of a ruthless conqueror. He had, however, no objection to withdraw his motion, convinced that much benefit must 898 accrue even from the present discussion.— The motion was then withdrawn.