§ Mr. Whitbreadrose and observed, that as it seemed evident the session was about to close, he thought it his duty to make two or three remarks on the extraordinary situation of the country, at a period when ministers were about to prorogue parliament. The house had before them several notices of motions upon subjects of the greatest importance. The bills for the defence of the country were just gone up to the other house to be discussed there; and they had heard speeches from a noble lord (Castlereagh), stating that there were other measures necessary in his opinion, but which the session would be too short to enable him to introduce. A notice had also been given of a motion to consider the present trying situation of the West India planters, and a motion had been made to inspect the Lords' Journals, for the purpose of taking an important subject into consideration. He knew that we had just sent out a very large expedition, which it was supposed had not gone to any great distance, and from which, therefore, intelligence, it was to be presumed, might very soon be expected; and its results would be most important to the country, whether successful or otherwise. He knew also that a treaty had been concluded between Prussia, one of our allies, and France, 1074 the particulars of which were public; and that there was also a treaty signed between France and another of our allies, Russia, of the greatest consequence, but as yet unknown. From the terms of the treaty with Prussia, however, we learned that the emperor Alexander, who, it had been said, had acted with so much magnanimity, had consented to take a considerable portion of the territory of his late ally and friend the king of Prussia. The king of Sweden, our remaining ally, was confessedly in a most critical situation, and a British force was sent out to assist him. Under all these circumstances, and with the alarming state of the East India Company, almost in a state of impending ruin; with so extraordinary a vote of credit asked on account of large sums being wanted, in the probability of the volunteers being called out on permanent duty for several months, which portended an expectation of a speedy invasion, or appearance of the enemy upon the coast; under all these circumstances, he wanted to know what advice was given, or to be given by ministers to their sovereign, respecting a prorogation of parliament. He thought that ministers, who had advised the dissolution of the last parliament, were bound to counsel his majesty to keep the present parliament together, till time was afforded them to consider these various important subjects, which so much interested the country. He feared, that the very large vote of credit that had been taken was on the ground, not only of an intention to prorogue parliament soon, but also on a determination not to call it together again for a long time.
The Chancellor of the Exchequercould not answer as to the time that knight elapse before parliament would be called together again: the first prorogation would he but for a short time, the subsequent prorogations would also be but for short periods, so as to afford a facility of early assemblage, if the exigency of affairs should require. The inconveniences with which a longer attendance of the members would be attended at the present season, was an irresistible reason for proroguing as soon as the state of public business would admit: along with the facility afforded by short prorogations from time to time to the assembling of parliament as soon as any particular occasion should render it necessary, the crown possessed the power of calling it together at any time at a fort night's notice.
§ Lord H. Pettyafter the extraordinary vote of credit which had passed the house at an 1075 early hour of the morning on a former day, a vote exceeding in amount any former vote of credit, even those passed at times when there was a prospect of large continental cooperation, thought his hon. friend well warranted in making the observations he had made, and requiring the explanations he had demanded. From the unprecedented amount of the vote, and the strange time at which it had passed, the house ought to look narrowly to the appropriation of it. After what had happened on the continent, and after two months had elapsed of the period which was to be provided for, this diminution of the period, the exigencies of which were to be covered, ought to reduce, rather than increase the amount of the vote; yet, when his majesty's present ministers had added £1,300,000 to the public expenditure, they demanded still £700,000 more; and why? because it might be necessary to call out the volunteers on permanent duty. This would not be necessary except in case of invasion or alarm of invasion, when it seemed it was not thought that parliament should be assembled. These unprecedented sums were moreover voted entirely on confidence, and without any estimate whatsoever, and were proposed without any other object than to prevent the necessity of calling parliament together again for a long time. The vote of credit, asked by his majesty's late ministers, was intended to cover £800,000 arrears of subsidies, and to allow the means of contingent engagement with the continental powers. It was intended also to cover the great expences incurred in the Mediterranean; but, in the present instance, it was necessary that the house should look to a vote large beyond all precedent, and founded on no document, no statement, no calculation, and no determination. This being a money bill, he should take occasion to do justice to his noble friend now absent (lord Howick), who had been on a former night accused of having given pledges to the continental powers, and of having provided no means of carrying those pledges into effect. It was not his noble friend alone, nor his fellow ministers, that he was most anxious to vindicate from this charge of pledge and forfeiture, but the country, whose faith and honour would be tarnished, unless the imputation could be done away. His noble friend had enabled him to state precisely, with regard to the promise of aid held out to Sweden, that the engagement was not to take effect except in the event of a particular contingency. If the contingency should have arisen, the aid 1076 was to have been given in cavalry, in which species of force the Swedish army was deficient, and for which Pomerania afforded an excellent theatre. Means of conveyance could easily have been found at any time for that portion of cavalry that would be required in this service. But the contingency on which the aid was to be sent had never arisen. He left it to the house under these circumstances, whether any breach of faith could be imputed to the late government. It was not stated that there was any thing in the official documents left by his noble friend in the department over which he had presided; it was not stated that any thing had passed in any verbal communication of his noble friend with the ministers of the powers in question, which warranted the expectation of a general military aid on the part of the continental powers, much less any breach of faith in not having sent such aid. Nothing, in fact, had been done in the way of holding forth such aid, except the assurance to Sweden, which turned upon a contingency which had never occurred. He condemned the abrupt prorogation of parliament, at a time when so many measures were pending which required deliberate consideration and discussion. Suspension acts were passed with an indecent rapidity which ought never to be seen, even in the justest exercise of one of the most delicate functions of parliament, All these things, and the large vote of credit, indicated an intention of speedily separating parliament, and separating it for a long time. The house ought to look to the circumstances, and though these circumstances might have arisen from the late dissolution, the ministers whose act that dissolution was could not plead that excuse.
Lord Castlereaghwas glad that the noble lord had confirmed what he had stated on a former night, so far as that a promise of aid had been held out to Sweden, and that such aid was to have been in cavalry. He did not understand what the noble lord meant, when he asserted that the contingency in which the aid was to have been given, had not occurred. Sweden certainly did think, that the contingency had occurred, and that the occasion was so far gone by, without the fulfilment of our engagement, that material injury had been suffered in consequence. Russia and Prussia also complained, that their interests had suffered materially from the neglect of sending the aid that had been promised. Though the cavalry was the most material part, infantry also was expected. But what entirely wrought the condem- 1077 nation of the late ministers was, that even if the contingency, on which the aid was to have been afforded, had in their own opinions arisen, they were completely disqualified from affording it, a great supply of tonnage being necessary for the conveyance of cavalry, and no such supply existing.
§ Mr. Windhamcalled upon the house to observe the different statements of the hon. gentlemen when they made their first attack, and afterwards when they were pressed by facts. He appealed to the house, whether the right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Secretary Canning) had not on a former night asserted, that when he came into office he was assailed by pressing solicitations and remonstrances from every quarter for military aid, the promise of which had been held forth. Now, it appeared that such a promise had been held forth to Sweden alone, and even that was incidental. It might be said, to be sure, that the remaining allied powers were cramped in their operations, in consequence of this aid being withheld from Sweden, and of that power being disabled from creating the intended diversion. That, perhaps, might literally make good the accusation brought by the right hon. gent.; but it was very far indeed from making it good in the spirit in which it had been urged by the right hon. gent. No promise had been made and forfeited. The contingency upon which the aid was to have been given, had not in his opinion, and that of his friends, occurred. The other powers, according to the statement of the right hon. secretary, asserted it did take place. In this contradiction, he should not think it wise to rely on the assertion of those who were interested in receiving the aid. The fairest standard would be to ask the right hon. gent. himself, whether, on the review of the papers in his office, such expectations were well founded? No attention was to be paid to the insinuations of neglected expectations and forfeited pledges, unless they took upon themselves to say, that in their own opinion, such expectations were directly held forth; otherwise he must contend, without allowing for the prejudice which he might feel, that the statement of his noble friend (lord Howick) was as much to be relied on as that of any other minister foreign or domestic. With respect to the charge of being unprepared for the contingency, if it had taken place, it was to be considered, that its approach would have been observed; for it was not to be supposed his majesty's late ministers would have suffered it to come by 1078 surprise upon them, as the present state of the continent had come upon the present ministers. He should have thought the assertion of the deficiency of preparation to meet the contingencies too bold. But there was this invitation to unauthorised boldness in this case, that the statement could not be contradicted, for it was impossible to fix the time at which the contingency could be said to have arisen. The late government had left in the hands of their successors, to the best of his recollection, 49 or 50,000 tons of sheathed transports, which was sufficient for the conveyance of 5000 or 6000 men. No offer of sheathed transports had been refused, and only the small transports, which could be always had on the moment, were discharged. Under these circumstances it could not be said that the late ministers were unprepared for the contingency on which aid was to be sent, in case that contingency had arisen. The facts of the existing supplies might be shewn by a comparative account from the Transport Board, of the amount of transports received and left by the late ministers.
Mr. Secretary Canningwas at a loss to conceive what advantage the right hon. gentlemen opposite proposed to derive from the renewal of this discussion. He was still more surprised to find that they conceived they had derived advantages from it. The right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) could not assert any difference on his part from his former statement, for he had not yet spoken. He did say that great expectations of pecuniary and military aid from us were entertained by the allied powers. The expectations held out might have been excited, either by communications to his majesty's ministers here, to the ministers of the allied powers to his majesty's court, or they might be communicated by our resident ministers at the courts of the allied powers, in their conferences with the ministers of those powers. The course of the Foreign Office combined these two modes of transacting business. The hon. gentlemen opposite first threw out a general challenge to alledge any one particle of promise of aid, and then, when the promise to Sweden was cited, the noble lord opposite came down and confirmed the fact, and the rt. hon. gent. opposite triumphed in the conformation. He had now to re-state the fact with the high additional authority of the noble lord. The vague nature of a contingency, which one power could consider as arrived, and another as not arrived, warranted him in the argu- 1079 ment that to leave the terms of the arrangement. I gent undefined, was the sure way of exciting general and large expectations. He repeated, that great expectations of military aid were entertained, not only by Sweden, but by Russia and Prussia, and this latter power was warranted in the expectation by the British resident minister (lord Hutchinson). He would not say that this expectation went so far as to look for a British military force in the line of the Russian and Prussian armies. The objects Russia and Prussia sought for would be best promoted by the co-operation of on English force with Sweden, in creating a diversion on the rear of the French armies. As to the transports, he saw no objection to the production of the comparative accounts at the commencement of the late and the present administration; but it was not enough that the late government had left a large general supply of transports, as those employed on distant service, such as the expedition to Buenos Ayres and Egypt, were nothing to the present purpose. The point in question was the existence of a sufficient supply for transporting troops to the continent, if that should be judged necessary. He could not allow that no preparation ought to be made till the exigency should have arrived. He had heard of bold invaders who had burned their transports on effecting a landing, in order to render it more indispensable to conquer; but for a nation that intended to send assistance to omit providing transports, was the strangest proceeding ever known, and remained for the invention of the hon. gentlemen opposite to find out.
§ Mr. Windham ,in explanation, said, he spoke particularly of transport tonnage immediately disposable for service, of which the late government had left more than it had received. No coppered ships had been refused; none had been discharged. He admitted that aid to Sweden might have Nerved Russia and Prussia. But what he complained of was the difference in the statements. The contingency could not come on without notice of its approach, unless the late ministers should have been surprised, as the present ministers admitted they were, by the events on the continent.
§ Dr. Laurencedefended the late ministers against the charge of holding forth expectations, and failing to fulfil them. If the expectations were held forth by our ministers to the court of Sweden, or our ministers to the other sovereigns, where were the instructions they had to do so? It was desirable that all the papers relating to the 1080 subject should be produced, and he saw no reason why they should not, as no inconvenience could arise from the publication of them as matters now stood on the continent.
Mr. Secretary Canningasserted, that by the confession of the hon. gentlemen opposite, expectations had been entertained by the continental powers of assistance from this country. He had not admitted that the contingency had not arisen. It might be his opinion that it had arisen, but he put it hypothetically, whether it had or not, the late ministers had made no preparations for it. If, therefore, the contingency had arisen, they did not keep themselves in such a situation as to enable them to fulfil their promises.
§ Mr. Windham ,in explanation, contended that no expectations had been held out, even upon the sheaving of the other side, which had not been performed. What then became of the exaggerated expectations and disappointments about which so much had been said?
§ Sir T. Turtonobserved, that if an additional sum was wanting, it might be in contemplation of a possible dispute with America, and insisted that if this country should be forced to a war with America, the late ministers had by their lenity, and too strong a bias for conciliation, given occasion to it, since they had treated with a pistol at their breasts. They ought to have insisted, in the first instance, that the Non-importation act should be repealed. If we should have a war with America, then, it was owing to their own concessions, and how could they oppose a grant which had arisen out of their own misconduct? Another reason for the enlarged credit might be the expences of the volunteer force. He hoped that this force would be put upon a more effective footing; that measures would be adoped for their better organization and discipline. We could not do without them, and it was requisite that we should have them in as perfect a state as possible. The country looked for this—the volunteers themselves looked for it, and what he meant was some further authority to the officers, and encouragement to the men. He also thought the Training bill ought to be put in execution with all possible dispatch, for he considered the object of that bill as a sort of basket in a stage-coach. It had been said on the other side, that insinuations had been thrown out against them. Of all things that he had heard from ministers against their predecessors, it had been most unlike insinuation, 1081 It was directly charged that certain expectations had been raised in certain powers of the continent, that assistance was promised on a certain contingency, and if that contingency had happened, it was manifest from the state in which the transport service had been left, that the promise could not have been fulfilled. He did not say that it certainly appeared that the contingency had happened, although it appeared to be the opinion of some, that the contingency had happened; but at all events this was positively asserted, that in case the contingency had occurred, there were no means of carrying the promise into effect.—When the situation of the country was considered, however, he hoped that all party differences would be laid aside, and that unanimity would every where prevail. With regard to peace he should approve of it, if procured on any conditions that would not compromise the honour and the security of the country. It had been said that France would have an opportunity of extending her preparations in time of peace, and that peace therefore was peculiarly dangerous. He considered this as absurd and ridiculous. Whatever advantages France could derive from peace, he was confident that this country would derive equal, if not superior advantages from it. If France should have resources in peace, we would have them also, at least in an equal degree; and therefore, he was of opinion that there could be no danger to us from peace upon that score.
§ Mr. Hibbertadverted to the outcry that had been raised some time ago about the want of employment for our shipping, which he considered as inconsistent with the present deliberations of ministers. They now seemed to intimate that it was impossible to procure shipping for a three months voyage at a short warning. Was this consistent with their former assertions? With regard to the promises that were said to be made to foreign powers, it appeared now that they had dwindled down to expectations on the part of our allies on the continent. This statement of expectations entertained on the other side of the water, were certainly very far from supporting the allegation of promises made on a former occasion.
Mr. Rosemaintained, that the statement of the ship owners, with respect to the shipping interest, had been perfectly correct, and that it was not inconsistent with the allegations, that transports could not be procured at a moment's warning. What his noble friend had said was, that there was no 1082 proper provision of transports for cavalry, which was the sort of force that had been promised. These could not be procured at a moment's warning. If an expectations had been raised in the minds of our allies, and no efforts had been made to counteract these expectations, he certainly could not perceive that they differed materially from a positive promise.
§ Mr. Hibbertin explanation said, that what he had stated was, that it had been asserted that promises had been made to our allies, and that these promises had now dwindled down to expectations, on one side, however unreasonable these expectations might be.
The Hon. J. W. Wardadverted to what had been said by the hon. baronet under the gallery, respecting insinuations. Certainly, if it was asserted that expectations had been clearly held out of assistance upon certain contingencies, and these contingencies had happened and no assistance had been sent, the matter became a serious and heavy charge. The late ministers had unquestionably been guilty of a crime against this country and against Europe. But in this case, instead of bringing forward these things for the sake of adorning a speech, instead of introducing them in order to turn a period, a distinct motion ought to have been made on the subject, that the house might have an opportunity of passing sentence, upon a deliberate investigation of the affair and clear itself both to the country and to Europe. This was what he called upon ministers to do if they had any grounds for the charge.
§ Mr. W. Smithobserved, that the hon. bart. had been most unfortunate in alluding to America, while he was recommending unanimity; every word upon that subject was to be carefully avoided at present, and any allusion to it was most imprudent and dangerous. Ministers had certainly a most difficult and important task imposed upon them in this affair, and any allusions to the lenient proceedings of the late government, were very much out of time. He thought that the Training bill ought to be put in immediate execution, and all the measures for putting us in a proper state of defence forwarded without a moment's delay. He perfectly agreed in what had been said by the hon. bart. respecting the advantages of peace, and hoped that his opinions on that point would have the weight which they deserved.—The bill was then passed. On the question as to the title of the bill,
§ Mr Whitbreadobserved, that the charges preferred by the right hon. secretary (Mr. 1083 Canning) against his noble relative (lord Howick) were of such magnitude, that he wished them to be distinctly stated. Was the charge specifically this, that the late administration had promised to the king of Sweden an assistance of cavalry on contingencies, and, when those contingencies occurred, the cavalry were not sent? This ought to be inquired into. The right hon. gent. had also stated hypothetically, that if contingencies had arisen, the late government would have been unable to fulfil their engagements. This ought also to be inquired into; for, if it could be proved that his noble friend had held out such promises, and violated them, he would be proved unfit for his situation, and in that case his crime ought to be known and punished. The right hon. gent. farther stated, that specific promises of assistance had been made to Sweden, Russia, and Prussia. He wished to know what promises to Sweden, except of money for augmenting her force—a promise which had been carried into effect by the present administration. As to Prussia, it was known what had been granted by the late administration, and what by the present. Where was the promise violated? With regard to Russia, the only assistance demanded by her was to negociate a loan with this country, which the late administration refused, but which the right hon. gent. said, he should have acceded to. That this refusal was most wise, appeared to him to be indisputable. Let the country recollect the Austrian loan, and the sums which had been paid for giving facility to its negociation. As to any military assistance to Russia and Prussia, independent of Sweden, the right hon. gent. had reduced his accusation to a mere expectation entertained by those powers. On the whole, he thought it incumbent on the house to entertain the subject by itself on some specific day, that these accusations might be brought to a point, and that it might be known how far the late ministry were accessary to the recent disasters on the continent, and he hoped that the gentlemen opposite would afford the means of elucidating the subject by laying on the table the correspondence in their possession. The right hon. gent. stated, that one of our ministers abroad expressed his opinion that expectations of assistance had been excited. Did he mean lord Hutchinson? With regard to the assertions of those who were lately our allies, and who were now, he feared, our enemies, was it not likely that they would avail themselves of exaggerated statements against Eng- 1084 land, to endeavour to clear themselves from the odium of the transactions into which both, or at least one of those powers had recently been forced?
Mr. Secretary Canningexplained what he had said the other evening on the subject of the Russian loan. A noble lord opposite (lord H. Petty) had declared his objection to such a measure in very strong terms, and all that he had stated was, that he was not so averse from it as the noble lord. Now, with respect to bringing the subjects which the hon. gent. had detailed in a distinct shape before parliament, for the purpose of calling for their judgment, he wished to know how they were to be brought forward. Were the gentlemen opposite to impute gross misconduct to his majesty's minister, by contrasting their proceedings with those of their predecessors, and were his majesty's ministers to be precluded from stating in defence of themselves their opinion of the proceedings of their predecessors, unless they originated a charge against them? He denied this. Besides, according to the hon. gent's. statement, these charges would amount to a solemn accusation of crime. All that had been said by him was, that the late government, though acting to the best of their judgment, had not acted for the benefit of the country. This had been extorted from his majesty's ministers in their own defence, and they were now called upon to make it the ground of a charge. If the exertions of the present ministers had been too late, they were bound to state that it was, because their predecessors had left them without the means of making earlier efforts.
§ Mr. Whitbreadcontended that the right hon. gent. had distinctly charged the late administation not with mere want of ability, but with a criminal violation of promise.
§ Mr. Windhamobserved, that when ministers made a charge, they ought to follow it up, because the documents were in their possession, and they could plead no excuse, except it was that the production of these documents would be attended with manifest injury to the interests of the country. Secrecy on this account might certainly be necessary; but he believed there was no such obstacle in the way in the present instance, nor, indeed, was any such alledged. The late ministers were ready to support their charge; if the present ones by way of answer to that, brought forward another charge, they ought to make it good, otherwise the house ought certainly to consider it as not made. He expected the noble lord would move for an 1085 account of the transports which the late government received at the time of their coming into office, and the numbers left at their going out of office.
Lord Castlereaghobserved, that the present discussion came with a very bad grace from an hon. gent. who had charged his majesty's ministers on a former occasion, with not having sooner sent to Sweden, or other parts of the continent, the force which was then embarking. Could ministers do less than state, that were their impressions ever so strong of the necessity of the measure, they had been precluded from an earlier recurrence to it, by the total neglect of their predecessors? No specific charge had been made, but it had been merely stated, that the late ministers were culpable in allowing expectations to grow up, and that one power (Sweden) had complained of the disappointment of those expectations. Adverting to the question of transports, he observed, that the interval between the wish to obtain transports, and the power of obtaining them, was much greater than what seemed generally to be imagined. Horse transports, in particular, could not be expected to be in the Downs in less than three weeks after the tenders had been accepted, and every one accustomed to these subjects, knew the tardiness with which those tenders were made. He thought the policy of the late government fundamentally wrong, that they had made up their minds to afford no assistance to the continental powers, and therefore, that they had managed badly to inspire expectations of assistance.
§ Lord H. Pettyobserved, that it now appeared that general promises had been first alledged; then a particular charge of a breach of engagement was made, and lastly the matter came round again to general promise. This was the dance that ministers led the house, all the while refusing the documents. The right hon. gent. had said that he had a right to retort on the late government. The best way, however, of answering charges was to refute them instead of retorting on others. But, granting his claim of retorting, he still contended that when the right hon. gent. alledged that the late ministers had adopted a particular line of policy, and had not acted up to it, he ought to be prepared with proof to make good his charge. When charges were brought against ministers, they had the means in their hands of refuting them if they could. When charges were made against them, they could only call upon the ministers to produce the 1086 documents on which they were founded. He himself was certainly of opinion that the Russian loan ought not to be negociated after the experience of the Austrian loan, though certainly there might be circumstances in which the Austrian loan ought not to be considered as a bar to any such loan in future. He hoped no more would be heard of the charge against the late ministers, or if it should again be insisted on he hoped the documents would be produced.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, it was clear that the fact was admitted, that ail expectation had been raised, at least in Sweden, of military aid from this country in cavalry, on certain contingencies. Whether or not those contingencies had occurred was a matter of opinion, and was not a subject on which a criminal charge could be preferred. Suppose the contingency had been that assistance would be afforded in case the allies were placed in such a situation as to be enabled to make a forward movement against the enemy. Was not this situation a matter of opinion? and might not one power assert, while another denied its existence? Whatever difference of opinion therefore there might be as to the policy of the late government, there certainly was no ground for a distinct criminal charge.
Lord Folkestoneobserved, that the question was, whether a crime had been alledged, and whether the documents to prove it were produced? Ministers stated the crime, and refused to produce the documents. This was the ground of complaint. They alledged a clear fact that expectations had been raised. The right hon. gent. (Mr. Canning) was of opinion, that the contingency had happened. In such a case it was neither honest nor candid to refuse to bring the matter to the proof.—The title of the bill was then read and agreed to. After which,
Lord Castlereaghmoved for accounts of the number of transports of different descriptions in the service of government at the time the late ministers came into office, and at the time they went out.—Ordered.