IRISH MILITIA SERVICE BILL.

HC Deb 19 March 1806 vol 6 cc488-90

Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the Irish Militia Service bill, which was read; and the question being put that the said report be agreed to,

Mr. Lee

observed, that he had not been present on a preceding day, when an hon. member (Mr. Keene) had delivered sentiments at large on the object of this bill. He entirely concurred however with that hon. member in thinking that nothing could be more advantageous to both countries than an interchange of their respective Militias. He disapproved however of the manner in which this object had been effected for three years past. This bill seemed now to he considered as an annual measure; it had been introduced immediately after the union; it had been passed as a measure of course last year, and was now passing the house in the same manner. But instead of this bill being regarded as an annual measure, he wished to see its object carried into effect on the ground of the union of the two countries. From this union the Militia of the one country ought to be that of the other. To put the Militia on this footing in the three united kingdoms, would, he conceived, be for the advantage of all the kingdoms, and would render their union more complete. Besides he did not like the idea of asking men to do what it really was their duty to do independently of any measure of this kind. The inconveniences arising from this proceeding must be strongly felt, should the defence of either of the countries require the immediate service of the Militia of the other. It would then be a very unfit time to call men to deliberate whether they would extend their services or not, when the existence of the country might depend on the rapidity of their movements. From the manner, he admitted, in which the Militia was now raised, such a bill, legally considered, might be necessary, as the men were attested only to serve in one of the countries; but it was for this very reason that he most earnestly wished to see the subject undergo a radical discussion, and such arrangements made as might make it necessary to attest the men for service in any part of the united kingdom. The origin of the present practice he believed had taken its rise from the circumstance of the Militia having been raised in England only, and not either in Scotland or Ireland, but since the two countries were now on an equal footing in that respect, the practice . was not only no longer necessary, but highly improper, as tending to perpetuate distinctions that were hostile to the cordial and complete union of the two countries. So much was he convinced of the truth of a these observations, that should his majesty's ministers, in the military plans they were on the eve of laying before the house, not make any satisfactory arrangements on this subject, he should certainly think it his duty to bring the question formally before the house. He hoped, however, that a subject so important would not escape their notice, and for that reason declined saying more at present, only that he gave his assent to the bill as a temporary measure, which ought as soon as possible to be superseded by some fixed and permanent principle.

General Tarleton

was of opinion, that it any discussion on this subject was at present premature. The late memorable and glorious victory of Trafalgar put an end to all apprehensions of invasion, so that in this point of view there was no room for those embarrassments the hon. member had alluded to. The discussion was also premature in another respect, as those plans were not yet before the house which were expected from ministers on the military defence of the country, and it would be highly improper, he thought, to embarrass their proceedings, or anticipate their views on this subject. When those plans shall have been submitted, it will then be time to point out their defects, and to provide such remedies as their deficiencies way require.

Lord Folkestone

was not aware that such a bill was before the house, till the hon. gent. got up to speak on the subject. He perfectly concurred with him, however, that such a bill ought not to be brought annually before the house. If it was a proper measure, it ought to be rendered permanent and embodied in the constitution of the militia. But whether at the same time, he should agree with the propriety of the measure at all, was a question that would remain for him to determine when the subject should come more formally before the house.

Lord Castlereagh,

in reply to the first speaker on this question, respecting the great disproportion in numbers between the Irish and English Militia, stated, that it had been considered as a matter of policy by his majesty's late government to have the militia establishment in Ireland as high as possible, as it did not at all interfere with the recruiting of the regular army, the bounty of three guineas, which was that given by the Militia; bearing no proportion to ten and twelve guineas, which was the bounty offered by the regulars. His lordship observed further, that the vacancies that took place in the Irish Militia from recruiting into the line were easily filled up, and at a very small expence, as the colonels of those corps had only to receive a compensation of three guineas, which was the bounty for a new man. This circumstance contributed to keep the Irish establishment so very numerous, and at the same time was one of the readiest means of recruiting when necessary the disposable and regular force of the country. For this reason he should be glad if a similar system were adopted by his majesty's new government in the arrangements they were about to submit to the house.

Mr. Vansittart

said, as the whole of the military system of the country was soon to be brought forward in one connected view, it would be much better to have any arrangements that might be thought necessary on this subject included in that general view, than to have it discussed in a detached form. The bill, however, was intended for immediate application, and would not at all interfere with any future arrangements.—The report was then agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a 2d time to-morrow.