§ Lord Henry Pettymoved the order of the day, for the house to resolve itself into a committee on this bill; and, upon the question, that the speaker do now leave the chair,
Colonel Woodrose, he said, with considerable reluctance, to oppose a measure so congenial to the sense which the country entertained of the eminent services of that noble lord, in remuneration of which these annuities were now proposed. But, participating, as he did, most sincerely, in those feelings, he could not, consistently with the principles he entertained, and his sense of duty as an individual member of parliament, assent to so large an appropriation of the public money, in the present arduous circumstances. When he considered that 300,000 or 400,000l. had been recently added to the public burthens, for an increase of pay to the army and navy, and that .every class of society was loaded with imposts to support the exigencies of the country, lie could not consent to the grant of the public money in any way not absolutely and indispensably 1148 necessary; and, feeling, as he did, that an allowance of 5000l. a year had already been voted to the representative of the noble lord, who succeeded to his title, he thought it amply sufficient, without any farther allowance to his relations. Had the noble lord himself been living, to enjoy the public remuneration of his splendid services, he should not be the person to oppose a grant, even to a much greater extent: but, as the grant now proposed was not for the noble lord, nor any of his lineal descendants, but for his relations, certainly very nearly allied to him, he could not think of increasing the grant already made, until, at least, some considerable reduction was made in the public debt of the nation; until it was brought down to 200 millions, from the 500 millions at which it now stood. It would, possibly, be right, for the house to have in view what parliament had done, in similar circumstances, upon a former occasion; and the most apposite precedent which occurred to him was, the case of the duke of Marlborough, in the reign of queen Anne; when, in consequence of a message from her majesty, on the 10th of June, 1702, recommending to the house a provision of 5000l. a year for that nobleman, that provision was made. He then moved, that the proceedings on that occasion be now read from the journals. [The proceedings on the 10th of June, 1702, were accordingly read, being the message received from her majesty, recommending the important public services of the noble duke, as well by his negotiations, as by his splendid victories, to the liberality of parliament; and also the subsequent proceedings of the 18th of the same month, in which the house voted an address, in compliance with her majesty's request.] The hon. col. said, he was ready to allow, that the services of lord Nelson to his country, were as splendid and important as those of the duke of Marlborough; and that 5000l. a year, at that day, was a much greater sum, in effect, than .the like sum, at this; but, then, the comparative circumstances of the country, in both periods, were also totally different. In the former, we owed scarcely any national debt; now, we had one of 500 millions; and, until all that could be reduced, considering all the other circumstances of the country, and that it was not lord Nelson who was to enjoy the reward of his services, he thought 5000l. a year amply sufficient; and, when the reduction he men- 1149 tioned should have taken place, he would have no objection to vote a much larger grant.
§ The Speakerobserved, that the hon. colonel's object could only be properly attained in the committee. He then left the chair. Upon the house resolving itself into the committee,
Mr. Rose,in reply to the statements of the hon. col. (Wood), observed, that the grant now proposed bore no proportion to the allowances made to the duke of Marlborough; for, independently of the 5000l. a year, settled upon that illustrious person, no less than 7 manors were granted to him by the crown. The palace of Blenheim was, also, built for him at the public expence. Queen Anne had this building commenced; but the tory administration, towards the close of her reign, thought proper, most unworthily, to prevent its proceeding. Upon the accession, however, of George I. 42,000l. which were found remaining due to the workmen employed during the former reign, were paid, pursuant to an act of parliament, and the building was proceeded upon to its completion. The right hon. gent. added, that he understood, from the executors of Sarah duchess of Marlborough, that no less than 500,000l. were laid out, from the public purse, for the buildings at Blenheim. But was the hon. col. when he made the comparison alluded to, aware of the amount of the revenue possessed by the duke of Marlborough, at the time the pension was granted him? his grace then had, from the salaries and perquisites of various offices, no less than 40,000l. a year. Could it, then, be pretended, that there was any parallel between the case of the duke of Marlborough and that of lord Nelson? The one had an immense fortune, which devolved upon his family; while, unfortunately, the other was in very different circumstances. The splendid services of lord Nelson were not productive to him of any pecuniary profits. No; for prize-money, his receipts were insignificant. His proportion of prize-money, ever at the splendid battle of the Nile, was no more than 3090l.; and this, from particular circumstances, was less than the sum which fell to the lot of many of his captains. Indeed, the fortune of this distinguished hero was much less than could at all be supposed by any one unacquainted with the fact. For, he could say, and it was, now, no breach of confidence to state it, that, in the course of some communica- 1150 tion which he bad with lord Nelson, the very day before he last sailed from England, the noble lord told him, that all the property he had in the world did not exceed, at the utmost, 15,000l.; and that his debts nearly amounted to that sum. When one, then, considered the nature of the noble lord's services to this country, which, without meaning to depreciate the merit of Any officer, he had no hesitation in saying, were far greater than those of any other officer the country had ever known, great even as the services of the duke of Marlborough Were; having that impression upon his mind, an impression, indeed, which was, as it ought to be, universally prevalent, the right hon. gent. was surprised at the opposition made to a measure which proposed to grant merely sufficient to support the rank, dignity, and name, of this illustrious man. The right hon. gent. repeated that, if the committee would compare the sums allowed to the duke of Marlborough, with that under consideration, he was sure that all objections must disappear.
§ Mr. Francisrose and said: The public part I have already taken, on the subject of this grant, obliges me to say a few words on the present occasion. It does not appear to me, that the hon. gent. (col. Wood), who objects to the motion, has been convicted of any mistake. With respect to the grants successively made to the duke of Marlborough, you must observe the dates, and not confound the services and the periods. The manor of Woodstock was granted, and the expense of the palace provided for, in consequence of the victory at Blenheim, in August 1704. But, it appears by the journals, that, although his services, in the year 1702, were acknowledged in high terms, and that queen Anne desired nothing but, that the allowance of 5000l. a year, which she had granted to him, out of the post-office, for her own life, might be contained to his family, to support the honour of the dukedom, which she had lately conferred upon him, the house of commons positively refused it. No man can think more highly than I do of the services of lord Nelson. It would be invidious to enter into a comparison of personal merits between him and the duke of Marlborough. I shall, therefore, only say that, if the merits were equal, the cases would not be parallel. In the first place, queen Anne thought 5000l. a year quite sufficient to support the rank and title of a 1151 Duke; but now it is not thought enough for the title of an Earl. But what make the essential difference, in the two cases, is that the duke of Marlborough was alive and had children living. He, who received the reward, had earned it by acts o his own. Lord Nelson's collateral relations personally, are unknown to the public, ant can have no claim but what they derive from the accidental honour of bearing his name, and from services, in which they had no share. The gratitude, due to his memory, would, in my opinion, be better expressed with less profusion. He, who gives the public money, or his own, with moderation and economy, shews, that he value the thing he gives. Without arguing the question any longer, I adhere to my former opinion.
§ Mr. H. Addingtonthought it unnecessary to say any thing as to the merits of lord Nelson, whose character it would be as difficult to exalt by panegyric as to depreciate by calumny. But with respect to the measure before the committee, he observed, that it conveyed a proposition of reward for services of an unparalleled nature, far short indeed of that which was granted to the duke of Marlborough.
§ Mr. Wilberforceremarked, that if 5,000l. a year was, in the days of the duke of Marlborough, deemed necessary to support the dignity of a duke, that sum now, from the comparative value of money, was scarcely adequate to uphold the rank of an earl. But he viewed this grant altogether, not so much as a provision for the family of lord Nelson, as a pledge of national liberality, held out to our navy to encourage an imitation bf that hero's example.
§ Lord Henry Pettyconceived that, if any reference were had to the case of the duke of Marlborough in order to apply that case to the measure before the committee, such application could only serve to suggest a considerable augmentation of the proposed grant. The expence of building Blenheim alone, it appeared, exceeded the amount of the provision contained in this bill. But, independently of this expence, and the other sums alluded to by the right hon. gent. (Mr. Rose), it was to be recollected that the family of the duke of Marlborough still enjoyed a revenue of 5000l. from the post-ounce, which was originally granted in consideration of the services of that distinguished officer. Of the sum which his bill proposed to allow, the noble lord observed that 20,000l, were to be divided 1152 between the two sisters of lord Nelson, who were, he was very sorry to say, rather in limited circumstances, but who were the peculiar objects of that hero's care and affection, and both of whom he bequeathed to his country for that provision which it was not in his power to leave them. Could that country then, which he so highly served, hesitate to execute his wishes? After the deduction of the 20,000l. it was intended to apply the remainder of the sum mentioned in the bill to erect a monument, which should transmit to posterity the fame of Nelson, and the services which he had rendered to his country. With regard to the allusions which had been made to economy, he thought them inapplicable in this instance; economy, generally speaking, should meet with his warmest support; but the economy of reward for great public services, he should ever deprecate, particularly at a period like the present, when it was necessary to keep up the tone of the public mind to a level with the dangers of the country; to excite men to emulation by the influence of this example.—As to the remarks of the hon. gent. (Mr. Francis) upon the propriety of granting the proposed sum to the collateral branches of lord Nelson's family, he thought the argument had not the weight that hon. gent. attached to it. For those branches being the objects of the noble lord's solicitude, belonging to his family and bearing his name, were, from all those motives which suggest a reward of this nature, fully entitled to the consideration of parliament. There,was perhaps, no desire that operated more powerfully upon the minds of many men, than the desire of founding a family; and perhaps there was no class of men among whom this desire formed a greater stimulant to action, or a higher object of ambition, than those who composed the officers of the navy,—For what dangers did they encounter, what privations did they submit to, in order to communicate to others those means, those comforts and enjoyments, which they have no opportunity of enjoying themselves!—This feeling, which formed such a prominent feature in the character of a seaman, it was the duty and interest of parliament to cherish and to encourage; and what could serve as a greater encouragement to it, than the example which this bill proposed, of lord Nelson's merits laying the foundation of a distinguished family?—The clauses were then agreed to, and the report ordered to be received to-morrow.