HL Deb 20 March 1997 vol 579 cc1163-6

Baroness Denton of Wakefield rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 17th March be approved.

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the purpose of this order is to implement a number of recommendations of the report of the Independent Review of Parades and Marches. As your Lordships know, the Government have undertaken to establish an independent parades commission with an education, mediation and conciliation role. We expect very soon—I emphasis very soon—to announce a chairman and members of that commission. At the same time, the Government are consulting interested parties on wider decision-making and related powers which the report has recommended for a parades commission.

The measures which are being introduced now will implement recommendations which do not hinge on the outcome of the wider consultation. We consider it important that these measures should be in place for this year's main marching season.

The proposed order will make a number of amendments to the Public Order (Northern Ireland) Order 1987. These include measures relating to the requirements to notify the police of a public procession or parade. The current seven days' notice has been clearly shown to be insufficient time to reach agreement at local level, particularly in respect of contentious marches. We are therefore increasing the period of notice from seven to 21 days in line with the review team's recommendation. Where it is not reasonably practicable for the organiser of a parade to give 21 days' notice—for example, a march arranged in support of an industrial dispute—the organisers will have to explain to the police the reason for the short notice.

The draft order will give the police power to confiscate alcohol where it is being consumed at or in the vicinity of any place along the route of a parade or in the possession of persons travelling to a parade. These measures will therefore apply to those taking part in a parade, to others not directly involved in a parade and to those demonstrating against a parade. The powers are discretionary and implementation of them by the RUC will depend on the situation at the time. I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 17th March be approved.—(Baroness Denton of Wakefield.)

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, there is an elegiac tone to our discussions tonight. When the Minister and I were both young, which hardly seems a day ago, the Rolling Stones were in their full prime. I always thought that one of their better offerings was "This could be the last time".

There are familiar friends here tonight, not least the noble Viscount, Lord Long, and the noble Lords, Lord McConnell, Lord Fitt and Lord Cooke of Islandreagh. We have been together on so many occasions discussing Northern Ireland business. We all agree that we have always been dealing with a Minister of very high quality. She has dealt with all the issues with candour and decency. She has the respect of all who deal with her and, rather more rare among political figures, liking and trust. She has another very great virtue. When she speaks of a draft order she pronounces it correctly as draft, and not in that rather effete, southern way of—dare I try it?—dra-aft. It is definitely draft, not dra-aft.

She spoke about an appalling slur which appeared in Hansard in another place. I have to say that it is a corrupt Hansard because when the Member for Lewisham said that he thought it was a money-making scheme for lawyers, what he intended to say was that he was sure it was not a money-making scheme for lawyers. Curiously, the Hansard reporter omitted the word "not".

Noble Lords who spoke earlier mentioned the assertions made about the Minister's conduct. I do not know the ins and outs of those assertions, but I share with the noble Baroness, Lady Park of Monmouth, the belief that there are ignoble motives here and hidden hands at work. We cannot leave it there. I turn for the support of all noble Lords and the noble Baroness, and, for the purpose of the record, I see that I have the approval of all of them.

A report is being carried out. It would not be right, proper or fair if the Minister's position is not properly and scrupulously protected in the way that she is entitled, if necessary by the provision of legal representation and advice at public expense. That is the very least a Minister of the Crown is entitled to look to. The noble Baroness, Lady Park, spoke of the public support which might have been more vociferous. I note that and respectfully concur.

We cannot expect people to do difficult work if they are subject to what may be an insidious attempt at the assassination of a character which does not justify it. The Minister is entitled to the protection to which anyone else would reasonably look and which we would insist upon. I leave that matter there.

Your Lordships know that on this side of the House we have serious doubts about the speed of progress in relation to North. It is graceless and fruitless to repeat those doubts which I still have. But whatever happens in the election, I wish the Minister well in the future.

Baroness Denton of Wakefield

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Williams. There is an enormous comfort in being a Member of your Lordships' House. I would like to take the opportunity to say that I have received enormous courtesy from all noble Lords involved with Northern Ireland business over the past three years. I have also welcomed and enjoyed the bipartisan approach to Northern Ireland issues which has been adopted on the basis that a solution is so necessary. I apologise on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, who cannot be here because he could not move the time of the last plane back to the Province, however influential he may now be as a Member of your Lordships' House.

On this side of the House, we have moved on from the Rolling Stones to the Spice Girls, but one's LSE tags always pull one back. In this House I have experienced unfailing concern for Northern Ireland and its future. I have indeed been fortunate in the past three years to work with noble Lords who have questioned, sometimes criticised and frequently expressed amazement at the length of time that legislation has been in coming. But noble Lords have always added much to the debate, and perhaps I may speak on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland when I say that they are exceedingly grateful. I commend the order.

On Question, Motion agreed to.