HL Deb 22 November 1995 vol 567 cc298-300

2.48 p.m.

Lord Gisborough asked Her Majesty's Government:

What steps are being taken to evaluate the effect of the National Lottery on the betting office industry.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Blatch)

My Lords, we are monitoring off-course betting turnover in order to assess the impact of the National Lottery on the horserace betting levy, and plan to report our findings to Parliament in the spring of 1996.

Lord Gisborough

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, is she aware of, and does she agree with, the estimate of the Henley Centre that a decrease of only 2 per cent. in the betting tax would prevent the threatened closure of some 2,500 betting shops, involving some 7,500 employees who would otherwise become unemployed, and that the loss in revenue from that 2 per cent. would be broadly fiscally neutral?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, I am aware of the report from the Henley Centre, which was commissioned by the Bookmakers Committee. Two points arise from it. First, it is too early to say what impact the lottery is having on off-course race betting and on the levy. The other point is a matter for the Treasury and I cannot possibly pre-empt what may come out in next week's Budget.

Lord Wyatt of Weeford

My Lords, as chairman of the Tote, perhaps I may declare an interest. Are the Government aware that if they do not cut betting duty pretty sharply there will be many fewer betting shops from which to collect any revenue? They will lose revenue by not cutting the tax.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, the noble Lord overstates his case just a little. The Government have done quite a lot to relax betting shop rules and are still looking at further ways of deregulating. The particular point that the noble Lord makes is a taxation point and one for my friends in the Treasury.

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, perhaps I too may declare an interest, not only as one who often subsidises bookmakers in the life to which they used to be accustomed, but as the unpaid director of one of England's smallest racecourses.

Lord Strathclyde

Oh!

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, small but classy, I agree. I am pleased with the Minister's positive reply that the Government will be meeting the promise that they made during the Committee stage of the National Lottery Etc. Bill that they would monitor and report to Parliament. Will the Minister do her best to see that the present situation is remedied? Is she aware that, according to the latest figures, betting revenue is down by 7.9 per cent., and that that decline coincides entirely with the lottery, and especially with the scratchcards? Will she press as much as possible to see that when the Government report in March 1996 they produce a remedy, the best remedy being to reduce betting duty?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, it would not be appropriate for me to pre-empt the outcome of the monitoring exercise, nor would it be right at this stage to lay all the reductions in revenue at the lottery's door. It will not be until we have seen the results of the survey that we shall be able to respond positively, but that report will be to Parliament in 1996.

Lord Ewing of Kirkford

My Lords, I wonder whether I may ask a simple question. Is it the Government's policy to encourage or discourage gambling? Which one is it?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, it is government policy that people should be free to choose.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House since when it has become politically correct to elevate the status of betting to an industry? Will we presently have the lottery business elevated to an industry? I always thought that "industry" meant something rather more serious than that.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, it is not for me to be pedantic about the meaning of words, except to say that there are a great many people who gain a living from the lottery business, and I believe that the people who work in it are industrious.

Lord Gisborough

My Lords, will my noble friend take into account also that as a result of scratchcards 600 betting offices have notified the Horserace Betting Levy Board that they will have to close? Is she worried that if there are no licensed betting shops betting will go underground and probably be controlled by criminal gangs?

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, the precise point that my noble friend makes will be the subject of the monitoring exercise. It will only be when we report to Parliament as a result of that exercise that we will be able to take the matter further.