HL Deb 22 November 1995 vol 567 cc300-1

2.53 p.m.

The Earl of Kinnoullasked Her Majesty's Government:

How soon they intend to introduce safety grants for 12-metre fishing vessels in the light of the new marine safety agency code of safety practice likely to come into force by 1997.

Lord Lucas

My Lords, that is an issue we shall consider when the code is finalised.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that brief reply, and I accept that grants have to be linked to an approved code. Is he aware that the smaller fishing boats represent over 80 per cent. of the entire British fishing fleet, and—perhaps not surprisingly—are subject to a higher degree of accidents than the larger boats? Is he further aware that the larger boats are subject to a code of safety which was approved over 20 years ago? Does he agree that the progress of discussions which have so far taken over two years has been at a somewhat dilatory pace when one considers that this is about safety at sea and fishermen's lives?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, it may interest my noble friend to know that the process of producing the code was put in motion by a report of this House about four years ago. Since then we have been discussing the idea with a large number of organisations. I believe that there are 200 associations of small fishermen. There has been a great deal of discussion required. We have not been seeking to impose a code on a great many unwilling fishermen. We have been seeking to develop a code with them with which they will agree wholeheartedly. I believe that we are very close to succeeding in that. We have taken the time that it required.

Lord Carter

My Lords, in the discussions to which the noble Lord referred, will he tell the House whether the Government will resolve the situation regarding flotation suits? They are made in Scunthorpe and exported to Canada where they are compulsory items on Canadian fishing boats. They are not compulsory here, and have not been eligible for safety grant on any size of vessel. In the discussions is it the intention to make flotation suits, which are so important, eligible for safety grant?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, the present position on the present varieties of flotation suit available is that fishermen will not wear them because they are inconvenient to use while fishing. We do not believe that there is any point in making it compulsory to have a suit that no one will use, and so will not in practice save any lives. We are trying hard to find a suit which we can persuade fishermen to use. If that comes about, we shall certainly consider a grant.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, how does that compare with the protective clothing that sheep farmers are expected to wear?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, dipping sheep at sea is a new one on me, I am afraid. Sheep farmers are proving willing to wear the clothing which is currently available. I believe that they appreciate the risks they would run if they did not do so.

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

My Lords, accepting that hairnets and other items of personal apparel may be something of a Euro-myth, will my noble friend confirm whether the safety code, and any grants that go with it, will be dependent upon a long list of other items imposed by Europe? If so, would he care to name them, or is it so long that he would prefer to write to me?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, there is nothing of Europe and very little of imposition in what we are discussing. We are discussing a code which has been agreed with the industry as a UK initiative.

Lord Haskel

My Lords, the Minister has just told us that work on this code started from a report emanating from your Lordships' House four years ago. I is the Minister satisfied with the rate of progress?

Lord Lucas

My Lords, yes.