Counterfeit Currency (Hansard, 22 November 1995)

§ The Minister of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)
My Lords, there has been an increase in the numbers of counterfeit sterling banknotes, including counterfeits of Bank of England notes and notes of the Scottish and Northern Ireland banks, discovered in the United Kingdom in recent years. The vast majority of those finds were bulk seizures before the notes could enter circulation. Significant quantities of counterfeit foreign banknotes have also been found, again mainly in bulk seizures.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer although it contains 297 disturbing information. As most of those who ultimately suffer from counterfeit currency are shoppers on the high street, is progress being made in identifying the culprits, whether in Britain or abroad?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, as I have explained, the figures relate to counterfeit notes which have been seized, usually in bulk. People have then been charged. The authorities in this country take the matter very seriously and work with authorities in other countries to make sure that the international aspect of the trade is made as difficult as possible. By a combination of good policing and the banks attempting to make their notes safe from counterfeiting, we hope to keep the problem under control.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, as some expertise and a lot a vigilance is needed for ordinary people to detect forged notes, is there any hope that advice could be given to the public on how to do so?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for asking that question because it so happens that I have with me a leaflet that has been distributed—

Noble Lords
Hear, hear!

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
—and we did not even agree that I should be asked this question! It so happens that I have with me a leaflet entitled Know your Banknotes, of which 6.5 million copies have been distributed. It gives people advice on what to look for, such as the feel of the paper, the quality of the printing, the watermark and the windowed metal thread.

§ Lord Eatwell
My Lords, does the Minister recall that on 17th December 1993 his noble friend Lord St. Davids, speaking on behalf of the Government, told your Lordships' House that banknotes, particularly Bank of England banknotes, were designed to make them, as secure as possible from the threat of counterfeiting".—[Official Report, 17/12/93; col. 1518.]
That was the Government's justification for the confusing and muddy design of the banknotes with which we are now assailed in this country—a design with which any government that had an ounce of self-respect or pride in the monetary instruments of this country would not be associated. Given the figures that the Minister has just given for the increase in counterfeiting, is this not yet another government policy that has failed dismally?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I cannot recall my noble friend's remarks in 1993, but as I did not give any figures I am surprised that the noble Lord can attack me for them. The facts are quite simply that in 1993 a total of some £18 million of sterling counterfeit banknotes was found; the figure for 1994 was £17 million. That represents something like 0.02 per cent. of the number of banknotes in circulation at any given time.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, while I have no desire to echo the tiresome lecture that has just been given by the noble Lord opposite, and although I have 298 no expert knowledge, would I be right in thinking that the use of low quality paper for printing banknotes is itself a powerful aid to those whose business it is to circulate counterfeit banknotes?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I do not think that that is quite right. As I said earlier, the feel of the paper can be an indication of counterfeiting. The quality of the paper on which. banknotes are printed is good and is usually better than that obtained by the counterfeiters. The counterfeiters have found life easier with superior and new printing technologies which have given them the opportunity to be cleverer in their counterfeiting. That means that the authorities must—and do—attempt to find even cleverer ways of preventing that counterfeiting by making proper notes look and feel proper.

Lord Campbell o f Croy
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, inexplicably, has not yet raised the point, can my noble friend say whether any attempt has been made to produce counterfeit ecus?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, would probably think that an ecu was counterfeit in its entirety. I have no evidence that there have been any attempts to counterfeit the ecu, but I have no doubt that if we ever went down that road, attempts would then be made to counterfeit it.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, since my name has been drawn into this matter, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that there is no question of the ecu being counterfeit because it is merely a myth and a dream?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I think that the noble Lord has made the point that I made in my initial Answer.