Sarajevo (Hansard, 16 February 1994)

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the NATO decision of 9th February required all heavy weapons in Sarajevo, except for those within two kilometres of Pale, to be withdrawn to 20 kilometres from the city or placed under UN control. The parties have so far made a limited response, although the ceasefire is generally holding. UNPROFOR is continuing to monitor the parties' compliance.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. I hope that she does not think that I am asking this Question in a superfluous manner, considering the debate which we had on Monday. However, the subject is so important that I am sure the House wants to hear about the progress being made. On Monday one of the uncertainties was the chain of command. Can the Minister assure us that whoever is doing the negotiating, whether it be General Rose or anyone else, is able to say to the Serbs, "If you do not comply then the attacks will be made"? If he has to say, "If you do not comply, I shall have to see whether the various people concerned will agree to the attacks being made", does the Minister agree that that is a very bad negotiating position? Her assurance on this point will be very welcome.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Mackie of Benshie. I do not in any way dispute his right to come back to this question, which we discussed on Monday. I can tell him that the chain of command which I described in the debate, with consultation between the UN Secretary-General's special representative Akashi and General Rose, the UNPROFOR commander, together with the Commander-in-Chief for the southern region of NATO, is the command structure. Both the designated NATO commander and the UNPROFOR commanders must approve the air strikes. They will have the former prescription— if the Serbs do not comply they will indeed act— and not the latter prescription given by the noble Lord.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the United Nations is now calling for 3,000 more troops to be deployed around Sarajevo? Does that mean that there has been a change of policy; and that the United Nations is now embarked not on a humanitarian mission but on a peacekeeping mission before any overall peace has been agreed? I ask for an assurance from the noble Baroness that in no circumstances will any further British troops be sent in the present situation.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I shall deal first of all with the question about British troops. General Rose has made a request to the UN that more 207 UN troops should be provided. We shall consider that with other UN troop providers and perhaps others who have not yet provided troops. What I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, is that the UNPROFOR role, by virtue of the North Atlantic Council decision that it should supervise weaponry in Serb camps, is a wider role than it was before; but it is still not going down the path which the noble Lord indicated.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is still a high degree of imprecision in this situation which could be disastrous? We talk about placing heavy weapons under UNPROFOR control. What precisely does that mean? Does it mean that UNPROFOR will be in a position to prevent the weapons being fired? That seems to me to be t he only sensible interpretation. If that is so, that would be a little more precise. As regards the weapons being subject to NATO air strikes when the ultimatum expires, can the Minister say what that means? Does that mean that they will be attacked or that they may be attacked?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thought that we went over this ground fairly thoroughly on Monday. It is for the UNPROFOR commanders, together with the UN special representative, to decide whether the parties have complied with the terms of the NATO declaration, including whether they have complied with the provision to put their heavy weapons under UNPROFOR control. If they have not done so, then the UNPROFOR commanders, together with the UN special representative, have the power to act under Security Council Resolution 836.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the present attempt to lift the siege of Sarajevo is of the utmost importance? If she agrees with that, does she accept that it is vital that the UN Secretary-General's request for extra troops should be met? In contrast to what my noble friend Lord Stoddart of Swindon has just said, can she tell the House that the Government will be responding positively to the request to provide extra troops to support General Rose?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I note carefully what the noble Baroness has said. I remind your Lordships that Britain is already the second largest contributor of troops after France. There are many other nations with troops available who could also help. It is true that we have the finest commanders and the finest command structure. There has been no hesitation by the British Army to do their very best in Bosnia, and many people are alive today thanks to them. But I do not believe that your Lordships would expect me to say more at present. It is a very delicate matter. I do not wish to say or do anything which will exacerbate the situation. I believe that the noble Baroness knows me well enough to realise that Britain will do its best.

§ Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
My Lords, no one wishes to exacerbate the present situation. But should we not begin looking to the future? In view of the confusion which seems to exist, does the noble Baroness agree that it is time that Article 27 of the United Nations Charter, which proposed the setting up of a military 208 staffs committee under the control of the permanent members of the Security Council, should be considered so that responsibility can be gathered into one set of hands?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I understand the desire of the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan of Cardiff, to see that matter carried through. He knows that I share with him, in certain circumstances, some sympathy for that view. To carry that out when we are in the middle of one of the most difficult situations that the UN and NATO have ever faced, is not the right time; but I agree that the matter should be addressed. I shall do my best to see that that is done.

§ Lord Carver
My Lords, can the noble Baroness assure the House that, under pressure from the United States, the media or anybody else, Her Majesty's Government will not make General Rose's task any more difficult than it is already?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thank the noble and gallant Lord for that comment. We are doing our best not to make the tasks of General Rose and the special representative Akashi any more difficult. The delegated authorities to the Commander-in-Chief South, to Mr. Akashi and to the UNPROFOR commanders, is what counts. The UNPROFOR commanders have the authority, and it is they, not US anchormen such as Larry King, who interviewed Gerry Adams, who will take the decision.