NATO: Defence and Aid Expenditure (Hansard, 16 February 1994)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, in 199: 2, the latest year for which comparative figures are published, the defence expenditure of NATO countries worldwide was estimated at £ 295 billion. More than £ 3.9 billion was provided by NATO countries as bilateral and multilateral assistance to the former Warsaw Pact countries over the same period.

§ The Lord Bishop of Worcester
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. Is she aware that in Moscow there are women in the underground stations selling garments from the family wardrobe and family ornaments in order to raise funds for the home? In view of the Zhirinovsky factor, can she give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will inject into the European Community a more proactive and not illusory but visionary foreign policy which will raise the prospects for eastern European countries?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, there are many reasons why different household goods and even personal goods are sold in countries of the former communist bloc to raise funds. I shall not comment in detail on that, but I shall comment that the United Kingdom has taken particular trouble to work with the two European funds— TACIS for the former Soviet Union and PHARE for the eastern European countries — to improve the targeting of their resources and also to make sure that they are following programmes which can be replicated by those countries when such time comes that they can actually manage this. We are of course well aware of all the problems that nationalism, wherever it exists, can cause and we are particularly keen to make sure that not only do the European funds work well but that our own know-how fund— some £ 17.2 million to Russia— is working to the best quality possible.

§ Lord Finsberg
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that in view of what is happening in, say, Belarus and Ukraine, it is time to consider whether there is any more peace dividend and whether in fact we might not have to stop some of this economic aid in order to protect ourselves as members of NATO?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am aware of the grave disquiet at some of the things happening Belarus and Ukraine. It is true that we are managing to influence some of the areas of government in both those two countries. I believe that as long as it is feasible to influence them to take control of their nuclear plant and to improve their economic performance we should keep that line of influence running. It may not be indefinite. It probably cannot be; and the money would not anyway last that long. But I believe we should be trying to influence them.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, following rather closely on the last supplementary question, is the noble Baroness aware, as I am sure she is, that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States, accompanied by, of all people, the American representative to the United Nations, has been touring eastern Europe and arranging cascade sales of arms— "cascade" in this context meaning the downwards and onwards sale of old NATO weapons as new NATO weapons are procured?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am extremely surprised to hear what the noble Lord has just said, that the US representative to the United Nations should be doing this. I shall certainly look into the detail of what the noble Lord said and write to him.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a great deal of criticism of the operation of the know-how fund, including criticism of its failure to spend its budget in some countries, including Russia, because of incompetence on the part of those administering the scheme? Can the Minister give the House an assurance that she will investigate these criticisms and will try to speed up the process between the decision to support a programme and the gap of many months before contracts are issued?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, it is the first time that any deep criticism such as the noble Baroness has just made of the know-how fund has been put to me directly. I was present at the meeting of the joint assistance units with all the ambassadors from central and eastern Europe earlier this week. I have met many of the leaders of the countries receiving these funds. On every occasion, and without exception, it has been the British know-how funds which have been said to be best targeted and the best applied and which give the best value. It has been the PHARE and the TACIS funds which have been criticised in the way which the noble Baroness described.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, during the visit of the President of Armenia last week, did the noble Baroness have an opportunity to discuss with him the effects of the blockade imposed on that country by her neighbours and the need therefore for additional aid funds? Can the noble Baroness say whether it is possible for us to now consider opening a mission in Erevan so that better relations can be fostered between this country and Armenia?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I believe that I told your Lordships last week that we keep this matter under review. I did discuss with President Ter-Petrosyan the problems faced by Armenia and the ways in which they may be overcome. I have nothing further to add at the moment.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, will the Minister accept that, whatever may be said in the countries concerned, including what is said by our own ambassadors there, those who are involved in providing some of this aid in the United Kingdom, including educational projects, feel deeply frustrated by the delays in issuing contracts? Can she tell the House that she will look into these criticisms?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, if those who are frustrated by such delays will write to give me details, I shall look into each and every one of them. But, by and large, the delivery of all that the know-how fund has been doing has been far superior to what is given by some others. One of our problems will always be to get the response from the receiving nation to the questions that we must pose to make sure that public money is properly disbursed.