Polish Citizens: UK Visa Restrictions (Hansard, 22 July 1991)

Viscount Astor
My Lords, it would not be prudent to abolish visas while our embassy in Warsaw continues to receive very large numbers of applications from Polish nationals who do not meet the requirements prescribed in the immigration rules.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Is he aware of the terrible damage that that policy is doing to British-Polish relations, of which those who have Polish friends and relations are only too painfully aware? We are the people who listen to all the arguments and are attacked about the policy. Surely my noble friend agrees that it is time to show some generosity to a nation which has endured so much in the common cause of freedom not only in the Second 463 World War but in the Solidarity years when it was the leader of freedom in Eastern Europe? Can he give any special reason why we continue to be almost the odd man out in Europe over this affair?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, no visa regime is maintained lightly. However, the Government are concerned that visa abolition at present would result in large numbers of Polish nationals being turned back at our ports and airports by the immigration service because they are ineligible under the rules. That would be far worse for them and for our relations with Poland. The Government welcome genuine visitors from Poland and large numbers of them come here every year. In 1990 57,000 were admitted—more than from any other East European country. Last year 22,000 visa applications from Poland - that is over a third of the total received—were either refused or withdrawn.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, can the Minister tell us how many applications for visas were lodged by Polish citizens in 1990? Can he indicate the number of visas that were granted and the number refused? I am sure that the House would be grateful if he could give those figures without relying on his memory. Secondly, can he confirm that visa restrictions have been abolished or are about to be abolished by the governments of all European states except, I believe, Albania, Turkey, Iceland, Greece and the United Kingdom? Does he agree that that is rather strange company to find ourselves in?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I gave the numbers to noble Lords in answer to the last question. In 1990 57,000 were admitted to this country from Poland and visas were either refused or withdrawn for 22,000 of them. Because of our relationship with Poland large numbers of Polish citizens want to come to this country. For example, in 1989 our embassies in Prague and Budapest refused only 20 visa applications. That illustrates the difference in numbers of people who wish to come here from other countries compared with Poland.

Baroness Ryder of Warsaw
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I can personally endorse what the noble Lord, Lord Belhaven and Stenton, said? I have just returned from working in Poland. I saw queues of Poles standing and waiting for hours on end, through the night and during the day, outside the Consulate in Warsaw. I know that they often borrow money to reach the capital from outlying districts and have no means of paying for food or overnight accommodation. Does he agree that our policy brings discredit and disgrace to this country? Furthermore, does he know that applicants have to pay a fee of £20, whether or not a visa is granted, which is a great deal of money for the average Pole? Moreover, professionals and academics who have been invited to international conferences are often quizzed. I feel very strongly about this matter. What can the noble Lord reply?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has made strenuous efforts to 464 avoid the queues which arose last year. Procedural, staffing and office layout changes have recently been made to that end and a same day service is now being provided for most visa applicants. Noble Lords will realise that it would be much more expensive for Poles who want to come to this country to be turned away at the airport and have to go all the way back. I should add that out of the 22,000 unsuccessful visa applicants in Warsaw last year, 20,000 withdrew before paying their fees, so they incurred no costs.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that a good reason for retaining visas when other countries do not is that people want to come to this country and do not want to go to them?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, my noble friend made an interesting point. It is important that many European Community member states which have long land borders depend much more heavily on post-entry immigration control than we do—for example, identity cards.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that, far from it being the case that fewer Poles want to enter Germany and France than wish to come to this country, the pressure on Germany is far greater than it is on us? Is he further aware that the trouble which the Consulate in Warsaw has to take in order to deal with this situation could easily be overcome if visas were abolished?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord. The Germans took the view that it would be extremely difficult for them to control their border with Poland by means of visas. That is a decision which they made.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, can my noble friend say on what principles visas are granted or refused to people who come to this country from Poland? Of the 57,000 people to whom visas were granted last year, what proportion were economic migrants and what proportion wanted temporary visas for a short stay?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend detailed information of the number of people coming to this country. Obviously we welcome people who come for holidays and who attend official training and management schemes that we run. For example, this country has committed £50 million to the Know How Fund. That is for Poles to come to this country on technical and management training schemes.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Ryder, gave the House a somewhat shaming picture of scenes at the British Consulate in Warsaw. On 17th May last year the noble Lord, Lord Brabazon, answering a similar Question, said: We are seeking larger, more suitable premises for the visa section". [Official Report, 17/5/90; col. 385.] Are we still seeking them? Have we found them? What is happening?

Viscount Astor
My Lords, as I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Ryder, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is making strenuous efforts to 465 avoid the queues. The queues have been improved. They would be much worse at airports or ports in this country if we did not have visas.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that there is a strong feeling in this country that it is strange that we cannot have as liberal a policy for the Poles on visas as we have for the Hungarians and Czechs? After all, Poland was the country for which we went to war. Many Poles fought for us and now live in this country. I hope that the noble Lord will persuade the Government to consider whether we should be bracketing the Poles, above all, with the Romanians, the Bulgarians and Soviet citizens.

Viscount Astor
My Lords, we have strong ties with Polar d. But we do not believe, for example, that the solution to Poland's economic problems lies in sending its workforce abroad.

Lord Morris
My Lords, is it not the case that the vast majority of Poles seek visas to enter the United Kingdom only as visitors? The economic position is totally irrelevant.

Viscount Astor
My Lords, I do not believe that my noble friend is entirely correct. Over a third of the applicants were refused visas because they were regarded as people who wished to come to work in this country.