Polish Visitors: UK Visas (Hansard, 17 May 1990)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, we have reinforced our visa issuing operation in Warsaw and streamlined procedures. We are seeking larger, more suitable premises for the visa section.

§ Baroness Cox
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that somewhat encouraging reply. However, is he aware of the very high cost to a Polish citizen of a visa to visit the United Kingdom and that it represents approximately one half of a physician's monthly salary? Is my noble friend further aware that that cost is not refundable in the event of permission being refused? That policy is different from that adopted by other Western embassies, which give refunds. The British approach is felt to be unhelpful at a time when Poland is trying so hard to emerge from desperately difficult economic and political circumstances.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the cost of the visa is the same worldwide. It is not biased against Poland or any other country. The cost for a single entry visa is the same worldwide and has not changed in the case of East European countries since November 1986. As regards the charge not being refundable if an application is refused, I should say that the cost of considering an application and interviewing the applicant is the same regardless of whether entry clearance is granted or refused.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Lord say how many applications for visitors' visas were lodged by Polish nationals in 1989? How many were granted and how many were refused? What is the position in the current year? Up to date how many applications have been lodged? How long does it take to process each visa?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, last year applications rose by 38 per cent. to 60,000. In the first quarter of this year they have risen by a further 18 per cent. As regards the time it takes to process applications, over the counter same-day issues now account for 85 per cent. of all visa issues. That is in itself a great improvement over recent months. I do not think I have a figure for the number of applications which were refused but that was the total number which were applied for.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, what is the cost of a visa?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I believe I answered that question in my first reply. A single entry visa costs £20.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, is not £25 rather a high figure for a Polish applicant and an outrageous figure for an application that has been refused?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the figure is £20. As I said, the charge is the same worldwide. As I said earlier, that is the cost to us of considering the application and interviewing the applicant and it is the same irrespective of whether the entry clearance is granted or refused. It is the same as when someone 386 takes a driving test; he does not expect to get his money back if he fails.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, is the Minister correct in drawing a comparison between the taking of a driving test by a British citizen and this very important matter of visas for people from Eastern Europe? Is not this a great opportunity to allow our window—which is a very different one—to be seen by emergent democracies in Eastern Europe? Is it not a valuable way of countering years of propaganda against the West? Could not a special charge below £20 be made for this privilege in history?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we charge the same all over the world regardless of whether the application is made in Eastern Europe or any other country whose citizens need visas to come here. There have been illegal immigrants from Poland who have come here on visitor visas and been discovered to be working. That is why we need a visa system. We also have an obligation to meet the costs of issuing visas from the revenue that they raise.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, how many applicants for visas are kinsmen of the soldiers and airmen who fought in the Polish army and air force in the war? Is this not a case in which a specially liberal interpretation could be made of applications for visas from Poles?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I obviously cannot possibly answer the first part of the noble Lord's question. I should have thought that most of the visa applications were from younger people. We have discretion to make special arrangements for certain groups, and we shall continue to look at further ways of improving the system. However, the fact remains that we have an obligation to match our costs with our resources and we charge the same amount all over the world.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, do the Polish Government still place an embargo on their own citizens who wish to visit this country as tourists?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, not so far as I am aware.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House what charge other countries, such as France or West Germany, make for visas?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, their charges are lower than ours. However, our system is slightly different. It relies on checks prior to issue and on entry rather than on post-entry checks. If a person receives a visa to come to this country he is not further pursued once he gets here.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, I hope that the Minister will forgive me if I return to the question which I asked of him, only because I think that he misunderstood me. Will he take it from me that I certainly did not suggest the abandonment of the requirement for a visa in the case of any country? I 387 asked whether this was not an historic opportunity and whether arithmetic and accountancy should be forgotten for a moment and an opportunity taken in history to make the charge for the visa one that is not insuperable for the average Polish citizen.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord if I misunderstood him, although I do not believe that I did. I did not understand him to be suggesting that the visa regime should be abolished. If the noble Lord felt that that was what I said, I did not mean to do so.
I have already answered the question about reducing the cost of visas. We have to balance our books. If we were to charge different amounts in different countries I dare say that a great many other people would claim that they too should have a lower charge.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, are the Government sympathetic to the general sentiment behind the Question?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I have been trying to answer the Question for the last five minutes. The noble Lord will have to make his own assessment. We do not discriminate against any country in terms of the charges that we make. We charge them all the same.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the impression that he has given is that the Government are not sympathetic to the sentiment?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that may be the noble Lord's understanding. However, as I have tried to explain, we make the same charge in every country. If we were to charge variable amounts in different countries where would that end?

Lord Belhaven and Stenton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the numerous stories in the press and elsewhere of the rudeness of consular officials in Warsaw? Will he take steps to inquire into those reports?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am aware of an article in that context, which my noble friend referred to me. I wrote to my noble friend with what I believe to be an entirely satisfactory reply. Our staff do their best to be courteous at all times. We have increased their numbers to cope with the increased demand for visas. The fact that over 60,000 applications were received last year and the number is still rising must mean that even our costs are not prohibitive.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton
My Lords, does my noble friend realise that his reply does not answer my question and that the letter that he wrote to me was about something quite different?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
On the contrary, my Lords. My noble friend may recall that he wrote to me about the article on the subject of alleged rudeness by our officials in the embassy in Warsaw. I replied to him with a full response.