Universities: Pay Negotiations (Hansard, 1 March 1989)

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, the Government are considering letters from the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals, and the Association of University Teachers, requesting additional funding for pay increases for university staff.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that reply, although it does not throw very much light on the present situation. Is he aware that morale in the universities is at art all-time low and that a near crisis situation exists? Is he further aware that it is the Government, and only the Government, which can take steps to break the deadlock by providing the necessary resources to fund an adequate increase in academic salaries which would restore them to their 1979 level from which they have declined by 20 per cent. in relation to the average earnings index?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, the 1987 settlement provided for 16.6 per cent. from 1st December 1986 and 7.4 per cent. from the 1st March 1988. Therefore lecturers' pay has increased by 24 per cent. since 1986. The employers made it clear that no further increase could be offered in 1988 without further additional funds. The Government indicated that no further funds would be made available for the purpose.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that Members of both Houses of Parliament who have been foremost in trying to protect the finance of the universities have been hopelessly frustrated by the actions of university teachers, under the aegis of the AUT, who have imposed a boycott on examinations thus threatening the careers of an entire generation of students? Is he further aware that in the view of the general public such conduct would suggest that their salaries should be docked rather than increased?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, the Government are fully aware of the anxiety felt by students and parents. The Government deplore such irresponsible and unprofessional action being taken while pay negotiations are continuing. It is a matter which must be resolved by universities as employers. It is the duty of university managements to take appropriate 1043 action to ensure that staff comply with their contracts.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that students, whose examinations have already been disrupted, do not suffer from those troubles which are in no way their fault?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I have already said that it is a matter for the universities as employers.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, is the Minister aware that several of us, who are much involved in the subject, are most anxious to stem any difficulties arising in our universities at present? My noble friend has already said that we are waiting for a ministerial Statement. We can do no more than what we are doing. When does the Minister's right honourable friend intend to make a Statement?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I have no idea. I shall certainly convey the noble Lord's remarks to my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Rippon of Hexham
My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the great anxiety felt in universities at present about the situation which has been deteriorating for some considerable period? When was the letter received from the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals? Will he give the House an assurance that he will tell his right honourable friend that a reply should be sent quickly and that it cannot be said that it is a matter for the universities?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I cannot tell my noble friend when the letters were received. I shall certainly pass on his remarks to my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, will the Minister tell us, as an indication of the necessity or otherwise for more pay, how the brain drain is proceeding; how many university lecturers have emigrated during the past year?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, the brain drain is a myth. Data relating to movements of non-clinical academic staff between universities in Great Britain and employment or study abroad have indicated a net inflow for each of the years 1983–1987. For 1987 there was a net inflow of eight; for 1986 a net inflow of 56; for 1985 a net inflow of 138; and for 1984 a net inflow of 180.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is not just a question of numbers; it is a question of the level of people who are going? If we are losing a few of the most distinguished people from the universities that is serious. The balance is not redressed by getting a number of juniors from overseas.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I take the noble Baroness's point. I have no facts or figures to confirm or deny it.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, perhaps I may ask for your Lordships' indulgence as I still am a university teacher and I am a member of the Association of University Teachers. Nonetheless I hope that I may be permitted to ask a question. Is the Minister aware that if the salaries and working conditions of universities continue to deteriorate that will have a much greater long-term effect on students than what is happening at the moment? It is of no help whatever in the dispute to make inflammatory remarks about industrial action. Is not the question merely one of whether the Government will provide funds so that an appropriate settlement can be made? For those of us looking at the matter, it is impossible to understand the Minister's answer that it is up to the university authorities to solve the problem. They cannot solve it if there is no money.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord a helpful answer. I have said what the Government are doing at the moment. I cannot anticipate what the Government will do.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, that is my point. Are the Government doing anything? I could not understand from the Minister's answer whether it was merely a matter of waiting for a day or two and the Government would then be making a positive and constructive Statement or is it, as we believe, that the Government are happy to let the situation deteriorate until something catastrophic occurs?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, the Government will be doing something as soon as possible.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the cohort of young people going through university at the moment consists of the same young people who have been innocently at the receiving end of industrial action throughout their secondary school career? The action that is being sponsored and supported by the Association of University Teachers is ill-advised and counter-productive.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I hear what my noble friend says.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is the Minister aware that his replies have been less encouraging than usual? Has not the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals, to which the noble Lord referred, said that the current level of academic salaries is: endangering the ability to recruit, retain and motivate excellent staff"? Is that not an extremely serious matter? Cannot the Minister be a little more specific and tell the House what action the Government are taking in response to the CVCP's initiative?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, no, I cannot be more specific. I am sorry to have to say to the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition that I am unable to be more specific at the moment or to answer the questions any better than I have.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, why is the noble Viscount unable to be more specific?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, because my right honourable friend is considering the letters.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, the Minister talks about the employers. Does he accept that it is a government responsibility? Will he give a clear answer to the question: is it not a government responsibility? As my noble friend Lady Lockwood pointed out, the conditions of university staff have deteriorated by about 20 per cent. since 1979. Is it the Government's intention to restore the 1979 position? It is those conditions which have forced the AUT, much against its will, to take action against a stubborn government. Will he say that the Government accept their responsibility to provide the funding necessary to restore the conditions of university teachers?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, no. I must repeat that this is a matter which must be resolved by the universities as employers.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, does the Minister appreciate that, although the universities are technically the employers, in the last resort the funding must come from government?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, yes. The increase from 1988–89 to 1989–90 in government funding to the universities should be enough to cover an increase in university costs of about 5 per cent. That comes in addition to substantial increases of 10 per cent. for 1987–88 and 8 per cent. for 1988–89, which are generous settlements.