HL Deb 01 March 1989 vol 504 cc1039-42

2.50 p.m.

Baroness Nicol asked Her Majesty's Government:

What provision they are making, bearing in mind their responsibility under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 for conservation of bat species, for bat conservation work and research into bat population trends, in 1988–89 and 1989–90.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the Nature Conservancy Council is involved in many aspects of bat conservation and monitoring work. In partnership with many local bat groups, it deals with over 3,000 inquiries a year. Its research programme for 1988–89 includes three projects related to bats with a total value of over £65,000. One of these is specifically concerned with bat populations. The research budget for 1989–90 has not yet been finalised but a number of bat conservation projects are under consideration.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that encouraging reply. However, is he aware of the anxiety arising from the fact that Dr. Stebbings, of the Institute of Terrestrial Ecology, who is a leading bat expert and who has been leading the research on bat populations, is to be made redundant? That does not seem to be in keeping with the general approach of the Government on such matters. Can the noble Earl assure the House that work done so far at great expense and over many years will not be wasted?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I hope that I can reassure the noble Baroness that the bat base is safe. As to what I believe she considers the more important aspect of her question regarding Dr. Stebbings, the Department of the Environment has not been involved in a decision on redundancies; that is a matter for the management of the Natural Environment Research Council. The department relies on the Nature Conservancy Council for advice on conservation matters. The NCC advises that it has expertise on bats within its own organisation, but that it will continue to consider Dr. Stebbings as a potential consultant for bat work whether as an employee of the Institute of Terrestrial Ecology, or indeed, as an independent consultant.

The Earl of Cranbrook

My Lords, I wonder whether my noble friend has been informed by his advisers that some of the work carried out into bat populations by Dr. Stebbings, among others, indicates that since 1981—which marked the passing of the Wildlife and Countryside Act—the population of small bats in this country is considered to have declined from about 9 million to about 3 million? That is a decline of about two-thirds. Does my noble friend believe that that represents a true safeguarding in the sense of what he referred to as "the bat base"?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I think that my noble friend is perhaps better informed than the Department of the Environment concerning the actual number of bats in existence. However, it is estimated that as many as 28,000 bats were saved as a result of guidance by the NCC in the two years following the introduction of the 1981 Act.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware of a widespread advertising campaign in the national press over the past few months promoting a new plastic material which is sprayed on the underside of older roofs? Have the Government looked at the matter? If so, can they say whether the material contains anything which is injurious to these delightful little creatures?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. Of course, it is not draughty areas that bats particularly like; it is safe and warm areas where the wood is not too old.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that we have now moved from Question 2 to Question 3 and from deafness to blindness? Is he further aware that although hats cannot see very well, they have a remarkable ability to detect both obstacles ahead of them and their prey? Does he not consider that a study of their conduct might be most helpful to the Government?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, your Lordships will, I think, understand the point that my noble friend makes. From the point of view of scientific interest, the navigation of bats is indeed of predominant importance, especially as regards echo location. It is feasible that such studies could be of benefit to man. However, that is not a factor which is taken into account when determining the protection offered under the 1981 Act.

Lord Craigton

My Lords, this is a Question about the responsibility of government in protecting bats under the Wildlife and Countryside Act. Is the Minister aware of the large number of cases brought over the past eight years against people who have deliberately destroyed bats? Is he further aware that nearly every one of those cases was lost? I have discovered the reason: it is that Section 9(4) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act says that you must prove an intention to destroy. All the people who wish to get rid of bats are quite well aware of that fact. They say to the magistrate, "I am terribly sorry, I did not realise it hurt them; I won't do it again". So cases do not succeed. Will the Minister take what action he can to change the wording from "intention" to "knowingly destroy" which would save many thousands of bats?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I understand the point my noble friend makes. However, I am not aware of all the cases which have been brought against particular individuals over the past few years. Nevertheless, he is right that under Section 9 of, and the listing contained in Schedule 5 to, the Wildlife and Countryside Act, all bats are protected from: Killing, injuring, sale, and taking". Further, under Section 10 of that Act, bats are given fuller protection than other protected wild animals because of their special requirements for roosting.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, is there any connection between a declining bat population and the fact that there are fewer belfries available these days for roosting?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, that is a difficult point upon which to make a sensible comment.

Baroness David

My Lords, is the Minister aware that many voluntary bodies have carried out observation and research into the bat population, and what is happening to it? Is he further aware that with the cuts in the money allocated to the Nature Conservancy Council, such voluntary bodies may not be funded so well in the future? Can he please try to ensure that the voluntary bodies do not suffer? Should not the grants be fully restored to the NCC?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the noble Baroness is quite right. In addition, the Nature Conservancy Council is involved in a partnership with the Vincent Wildlife Trust and the Flora and Fauna Preservation Society which support a full-time bat conservation officer and assistant.