Greenhouse Effect: Monitoring (Hansard, 12 June 1989)

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, I apologise if this is a somewhat longer Answer than usual. Detection of the greenhouse effect, which is a long-term phenomenon, will depend on careful statistical analysis of accumulated data of many kinds. One example is the measurement of sea surface temperatures made hourly around the world by national meteorological services co-ordinated by the World Meteorological Organisation. The concentrations of the principal greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and CFCs are continuously monitored by several countries in a co-ordinated programme, including a DoE-supported monitoring site in Ireland measuring methane and CFCs.
Scientists are currently evaluating other elements such as sea ice extent and changes in glaciers. It is expected that in its report to the second world climate conference in 1990 the Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change, whose science working group is chaired by the Director General of the United Kingdom Meteorological Office, will include an assessment of relevant monitoring options.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, in view of that comprehensive Answer and other serious features, would it not be proper for the Government to bring this matter on to the floor of the General Assembly of the United Nations?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am sure that it will get there in any case, but I can assure the noble Lord and the House that I brought it to the attention of the United Nations environment programme in Nairobi three weeks ago.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, is not my noble friend aware that the recent announcement of the commissioning of a second Antarctic research vessel to gather information in this context is particularly welcome?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. One of the great unknowns is the Antarctic. Developments there could have an enormous effect on climate change, and therefore we need further research.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, we are glad to hear of the Government's interest in monitoring the greenhouse effect. Will the noble Earl add to that by urging his governmental colleagues in the Department of Energy not to overturn the amendment carried by your Lordships at the Committee stage of the Electricity Bill to safeguard the conservation of energy, which is the prime way of preventing the greenhouse effect?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, it is one of the ways; however, it is not necessarily the prime way. As the noble Lord will be aware, the Energy Efficiency Office has done, is doing and will continue to do a tremendous job.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, do not coal-burning power stations have an unfortunate effect on this matter and should not we therefore be aiming to reduce, and eventually eliminate, the coal-burning power stations as and when economic circumstances permit?

The Earl of Caithness
Indeed, my Lords. Any combustion of a fossil fuel adds to the problem, and coal is worse in that respect than either oil or natural gas. As my noble friend will be aware, we have a rather ridiculous European directive which limits the amount of gas we can burn in large combustion plants.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, can the Minister explain to the House the reason for the Government's apparent reluctance to contribute to an international fund for the purposes of examining the greenhouse effect? I understand that the idea of such a fund is supported by the United Nations environment programme, to which he has referred, and also by the European Community. However, it appears that the Government are not prepared to support it. Can the noble Earl explain why?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am not sure to which fund the noble Baroness is referring. However, I can assure the House that if only other governments would commit the same amount of money to research as has this country—we have the only global climate monitoring station outside the United States—we might then see a little more international effort.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, can the noble Earl confirm that during the course of my lifetime the glaciers have advanced and retreated about four times and that there is therefore no need to adopt planning stations?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Earl is absolutely right; indeed, I can confirm that even before he was born the same thing was happening. Some of your Lordships will be aware that when my ancestors, the Vikings, discovered Greenland, it was in fact green.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, in his reply to me the noble Earl referred to the Energy Efficiency Office. Will he be good enough to confirm to the House that the budget of the office has been maintained in real terms and that it will be maintained?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the Energy Efficiency Office's budget this year is over £15 million. It has already generated a high level of awareness through a major publicity campaign and it is right that that effort should now be directed more specifically because the effect of that campaign has already become apparent.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, if I understood the noble Earl correctly, it would appear that the Government have commenced making recommendations to the United Nations. However, can he tell the House whether they will be pursuing the initial move they made, and if so, when?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, as the House will be aware, Sir Crispin Tickell made a major speech to the United Nations explaining the Government's view and their wish for a global climate convention. We shall take every opportunity to raise the matter. Indeed, I discussed it last week in Luxembourg with the environment Ministers. It will be raised again at the United Nations environment programme and also at the world climate conference next year.