§ 3.2 p.m.
§ Lord Dormand of Easington asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ What plans they have for the privatisation of the coal industry.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the percentage of our energy consumption met by private sector industries has increased from 41 per cent. in1979 to 73 per cent. now, and will increase to 87 per cent. with the privatisation of electricity. This demonstrates Her Majesty's Government's commitment to return nationalised industry to the private sector. Coal is no exception. While Her Majesty's Government have no plans at present for coal, we clearly have ambitions.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, in view of the slight indication at the end of the Answer, why do not the Government come clean and say that they will privatise the coal industry at the earliest possible moment? We all know that an increasing amount of work within the industry is being given to private contract. Is the Minister aware that if the coal industry is privatised it will receive no support from the miners, not least because of the closure of unprofitable pits, with the loss of thousands of jobs—that is still going on—and because new and profitable pits will prove rich pickings for people whose only concern is to make money and who have no interest in the industry or the country?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, your Lordships will appreciate that the measures required to transfer and allocate mining reserves and liabilities are complex and will take some time to prepare. Her Majesty's Government do not want to deflect the industry's management from its objective of the restructuring of the industry so that it can compete profitably in the market place.
§ Lord StrabolgiMy Lords, in the event of nationalisation, what is to happen—
§ Lord StrabolgiMy Lords, it means the same thing. What is to happen to the coal research station which is doing such important work with regard to coal liquefaction to replace petrol? Is the noble Viscount aware that in the days before the last war when the coal industry was owned by private colliery companies nothing was done in that direction?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for pointing out that matter. As I said, at present we have no plans to privatise coal.
§ Lord Harmar-NichollsMy Lords, if it ever were decided to put the coal industry on offer, in view of the questions that we have just had, does he think that there will be any takers in this country or anywhere else?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, by the time we come to privatise coal, I am sure that my noble friend will realise that there will be takers.
§ Lord Mason of BarnsleyMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that privatising the coal industry could mean that there will be many dire days ahead for the coal communities in the North of England? With the privatisation of electricity, which is the forerunner to coal, it is estimated that up to 160,000 jobs will be lost, again mostly in the coal communities. With unrestrained cheap coal imports and, after privatisation, fewer mines, there will be a serious unemployment problem, again in the North, which will emphasise the North/South divide. The policy is unwise, dangerous and should be abandoned.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I do not want to get into a political debate at this stage because I have already said that we have no plans to privatise coal. For those who work in the coal industry I can say that the necessary investment in mines will be provided by private capital markets subscribing to a profitable enterprise.
§ Lord Orr-EwingMy Lords, has my noble friend considered loosening the regulations which prevent people from doing open-cast mining for coal? Is it necessary to continue with those regulations which have been in effect unnecessarily for a long time?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I shall convey that point to my right honourable friend.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, the noble Viscount denies having plans to privatise the coal industry, but he spoke of ambitions. Is he aware that the coal industry was nationalised because of the enormous chaos that was caused by the private ownership of the coal industry pre-war'? In his ambitions, does he advocate a return to that chaos and the closing of mines before their economic reserves are used up? Is that not against the national interest?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I did say that I did not not think that this was the occasion for a political debate as we do not have any plans. It is a hypothetical question and I do not believe it requires a hypothetical answer.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords—
§ Lord DenhamWill the noble Lord give way?
§ Lord DenhamMy Lords, we have been 30 minutes on Question Time today. The House generally accepted that 20 minutes was the ideal. We sometimes go a little over. I believe that we should end. If the noble Lord, Lord Dormand, would like to put his question and my noble friend to answer it, we can then perhaps move on to the next business.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, I am grateful for that sympathetic view. I was merely going to point out—
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, from my short time in the House I understand that the convention is that we are allowed a second question.
§ Lord DenhamMy Lords, may I put the noble Lord right, because this point has been misunderstood? No noble Lord who asks a Question has the right of reply at the end. The general consensus is that the noble Lord who puts the Question may ask one supplementary question. Out of politeness he then gives way to other noble Lords in different parts of the House. If he wishes to ask a further supplementary question later on, provided that it is not too much later on, he is entitled to do so.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, I am grateful for that advice. In view of the kindness which is always shown in the House, I now put a second question. Does the noble Viscount accept that privatisation will inevitably mean more open-cast mining, which has few friends anyway, and a considerable increase in coal imports?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, no.